# There’s more to life than a job title, with UOPX alumnus Matthew Phillips

March 14, 2025 • 5 minutes
## Franchise Owner Overcomes Setbacks to Lead Detroit’s Water Dept. | Degrees of Success Podcast Ep 005

×  
Chapter 1: Welcome to the Degrees of Success Podcast 0:00- Hello and welcome to the Degrees of Success podcast. Chapter 2: Introducing Matthew Phillips 0:1515 secondsI'm your host, Frieda Richards. And today we have an incredible guest, Matthew Phillips. 0:2121 secondsMatthew is the Chief of staff and customer service officer at Detroit Water and Sewage Department. 0:2929 secondsHe's also a 2023 grad from the University of Phoenix. Please help me welcome Matthew Phillips. 0:3838 seconds- Thank you for having me. - Absolutely. 0:4040 secondsSo we wanna just jump right in and learn more about you right away. Chapter 3: Matthew’s Early Life and Background 0:4343 secondsSo first things first, tell us about your background and like the, where you grew up and how you grew up and what kind of kid you were. 0:5050 seconds- Wow. I'm not sure I can tell the honest story on that one, but, no, just kidding. 0:5656 secondsNo, I grew up in a suburb of, of Detroit, Michigan, and I've lived in Michigan my entire life. 1:041 minute, 4 secondsYou know, I I, I think I just had a regular childhood as far as my upbringing. 1:091 minute, 9 secondsI was very close to my family and my cousins as far as sports go. I played ice hockey almost all my entire life. 1:181 minute, 18 secondsSo I kind of have that, that, and I still do that today. And, oh, let's see. 1:241 minute, 24 secondsI probably the most exciting thing that I think most people are like, wow, that's an interesting piece, is that I actually met my wife when I was in, Chapter 4: Meeting His Wife in Sixth Grade 1:321 minute, 32 secondswe were both in sixth grade, so elementary school, we knew each other and we were just kinda, I don't know, I don't wanna say best friends, but we were just friends. 1:411 minute, 41 secondsWe knew each other all through junior high and high school. 1:431 minute, 43 secondsAnd our senior year in high school, we got really close to each other and I asked her to prom. 1:501 minute, 50 secondsAnd from then on we were completely inseparable. 1:541 minute, 54 secondsWe ended up starting our, I guess our, you know, our university or college careers together. 2:012 minutes, 1 secondWe went to the same university just so we could be together. 2:052 minutes, 5 secondsAnd yeah, I mean we're, I, I've been married to, to Jenny for an awfully long time. 2:122 minutes, 12 secondsWe have two beautiful, lovely children that are three years apart, and they both go to the same university together here in Michigan. 2:222 minutes, 22 secondsIn fact, they're now roommates. 2:242 minutes, 24 secondsSo my oldest daughter is now starting her master's degree and my youngest daughter is a sophomore and they live together in the same apartment. 2:322 minutes, 32 secondsAnd so that's very comforting to know. 2:332 minutes, 33 secondsSo that's probably kind of the inside track on who I am and kind of what, what, what I'm all about. For - Sure. 2:432 minutes, 43 secondsIt sounds like you have a really great foundation, like a, a wife you've known since the sixth grade, who can say that? 2:492 minutes, 49 secondsThat's amazing. And you have two awesome daughters, both in college and roommates. 2:562 minutes, 56 seconds- Yes, very. - That's - S - Incredible. What, what are your daughter's degrees gonna be in? Chapter 5: Family Life and His Daughters' Careers 3:013 minutes, 1 second- So my oldest daughter is going into higher education administration, so she wants to be like an admissions counselor or recruiter of some type. 3:123 minutes, 12 secondsShe, she works for the dean of, of the English department. 3:163 minutes, 16 secondsSo she just, she's really kind of fallen in love with that aspect. 3:193 minutes, 19 secondsShe was, she wanted to be a secondary math teacher, but she really fell in love with like University of Life and what it's like to try to help individuals find their way. 3:303 minutes, 30 secondsYoung adults find their way into a career and whatnot. 3:333 minutes, 33 secondsAnd so she's really kind, she's kind of put her hat into that, into that ring, I guess. 3:393 minutes, 39 secondsAnd my youngest daughter wants to be in communications and marketing, so both of them were in marching band and both of them were drum majors. 3:503 minutes, 50 secondsSo they both led the band. 3:523 minutes, 52 secondsThey're actually the first sisters or siblings that were leading the marching band of 150 students. 4:004 minutesSo they do have a leadership, I guess, in their bones. 4:034 minutes, 3 secondsI guess I, I always say they're kind of following in my footsteps. 4:064 minutes, 6 secondsSo yeah, it's, it's great to kind of watch 'em, see 'em, watch 'em grow and find their way through life and make decisions. 4:144 minutes, 14 secondsIt's, it's very interesting and, and I've been very supportive of, of any decisions that they've wanted to make or any changes that they've wanted to make in their, in their schooling. 4:244 minutes, 24 secondsSo it's, it's been fun. - Oh my goodness. Your daughters sound amazing. 4:294 minutes, 29 secondsThey, it also sounds like they have a really great mentor in you and definitely probably following dad's footsteps. 4:404 minutes, 40 secondsWhat does that look like for you as you were going through your career and your educational journey? Who would you say influenced you the most and how? 4:514 minutes, 51 seconds- Well, I, I would say that my influences likely came from my father who was, you know, very, very rigid and very structured and, and, and home and family life. Chapter 6: Influences and Pursuing Happiness 5:005 minutesAnd definitely wanted me to do whatever it was that made me happy, 5:085 minutes, 8 secondsbut was relatively rigid in the structure that you have to have a college degree. And yeah, I'll, I'll just tell you how old I am. 5:165 minutes, 16 secondsI'm 52 years old and, and I think growing up in, in the eighties very much from the counselors in, 5:255 minutes, 25 secondsin high school was, you know, if you don't go to college and you're not on the college track, you know, you likely, you likely won't be successful. 5:345 minutes, 34 secondsAnd one of the things that really interested me in school was probably more of the trades. 5:405 minutes, 40 secondsSo I was really excited in, you know, wood shop, metal shop photography. 5:455 minutes, 45 secondsI was not equipped from an artistic standpoint of being a painter or something like that. I think that's the way most of us think about it. 5:535 minutes, 53 secondsBut definitely hands-on creative and I really liked instant gratification. 5:595 minutes, 59 secondsAnd when I, you know, when I got to college in my first kind of stepping into that world out 6:066 minutes, 6 secondsof high school, having instant gratification just wasn't there. 6:116 minutes, 11 secondsAnd so sitting in classes in, in the traditional type of classroom setting, I will just say I was probably the student 6:186 minutes, 18 secondsthat was most likely looking out the window and, and, and kind of dreaming about what else I could be doing besides sitting here. 6:276 minutes, 27 secondsAnd some of the courses that you take in college are some of the courses that for me was, where does this get me? 6:346 minutes, 34 secondsWhere will I ever use this in, in, in real life, per se? 6:386 minutes, 38 secondsAnd most of that just didn't resonate with me, and I had a very difficult time keeping my grades up. 6:446 minutes, 44 secondsAnd, and I was not the, the individual that was like, oh, I'm gonna go off and do other things. I'm not gonna study. I'm not gonna put time in. 6:526 minutes, 52 secondsI definitely put the time in it, just the amount of time that I was putting into it and what I was getting out of it just wasn't there for me. Chapter 7: Career Choices Over Traditional Education 7:007 minutesAnd so, you know, spending the time at, at university was something I just couldn't see the end result for. 7:077 minutes, 7 secondsIt just wasn't there. And I was looking for the instant gratification. 7:107 minutes, 10 secondsAnd I always tell people the, the trades were, were probably something that I, I probably would've succeeded at a young age into 7:197 minutes, 19 secondsbecause of that instant gratification and having something that was hands on. 7:237 minutes, 23 secondsSo I was constantly looking for something that I just wasn't getting. 7:277 minutes, 27 secondsAnd so for me, starting, I guess a career became more important to me than finishing college. 7:367 minutes, 36 secondsAnd I, I don't want anybody to get the wrong impression and, and everybody has a different path in life, and you have to find what that is and what makes sense to you. 7:457 minutes, 45 secondsAnd starting a family, you know, settling down, I guess, whatever that means, that that means a lot to different people. 7:517 minutes, 51 secondsBut settling down, starting a family and, and having a job right away, and then seeing kind of the fruits of that, right? 7:587 minutes, 58 secondsWhich is, I have a job, I've got a full-time job, I have, I'm no longer on my parents, you know, medical benefits, right? 8:048 minutes, 4 secondsI've, I've got my own medical benefits, I wanna save money, I wanna get a house, I wanna start life. That seemed to be the most important path for me. 8:138 minutes, 13 secondsAnd that's, that's the path that I took. I mean, I really wanted to be an elementary school teacher. That was really the path that, that I wanted to go on. 8:218 minutes, 21 secondsAnd I really, because when you're in front of students, you can start to see that, but sitting in those classes and waiting for that to happen just wasn't there for me. 8:338 minutes, 33 secondsAnd because of my, my sports background or ice hockey background, I was running ice hockey camps for kids in the local area. 8:428 minutes, 42 secondsThat was like, I guess that was my entrepreneurial start was I can do this in the summertime and make money for college to, to go away 8:508 minutes, 50 secondsto university, but the, the, it was the gratification I to have, you know, 50, 60 kids in front of me 8:588 minutes, 58 secondsfor four hours a week and watch them grow and watch them flourish. 9:029 minutes, 2 secondsAnd I could nurture them and teach them something and they could walk away and use it right away, which, wow, that was me, right? 9:099 minutes, 9 secondsI wanted to use whatever skill I was learning at university right away, but you can't do that. 9:149 minutes, 14 secondsYou've gotta wait four or five years to graduate and then make that happen so you can kind of see where all of that was forming for me 9:219 minutes, 21 secondsand why it probably didn't work for me in, in, in the right way. 9:269 minutes, 26 secondsThat traditionally, for a lot of people it probably went, but I mean, by time, five years went by of, I'll just say dabbling into college or university life. 9:359 minutes, 35 secondsI mean, I'd accumulated 70 or 80 credits. 9:389 minutes, 38 secondsI mean, it wasn't like I wasn't doing something, it just wasn't everything that I was looking for. So I started, I guess a real career. 9:479 minutes, 47 secondsSo I, that's probably like where your next question is gonna go is how did that progress? Like what did that look like? You know, where, where were you going? - Are you trying to steal my job? Chapter 8: Starting His Career in Customer Service 9:569 minutes, 56 seconds- I'm not trying to steal your job - Because you're excellent that, I mean, honestly, you just, you just knew that that where the conversation would naturally lead. 10:0510 minutes, 5 secondsHonestly, I would love to know more about your career. 10:0910 minutes, 9 secondsWhat I'm hearing you say is that you are passionate about serving and you have a great desire to be impactful in other people's lives. 10:2210 minutes, 22 secondsAnd I heard you say that your daughter is looking into higher education for something similar. So that seems to be a, a vein that runs through the family. 10:3110 minutes, 31 secondsThat's excellent. So Matthew, in your 52 years, you've had a multitude of experiences that led you to 10:4110 minutes, 41 secondswhere you are now, one of which is being an entrepreneur and running your own franchise. Tell me how that led you and shaped you in leadership. 10:5010 minutes, 50 seconds- Yeah, so, you know, I I, I really, I got my start kind of in the, you know, I guess my career start after going to college 10:5910 minutes, 59 secondsor university just didn't kind of pan out for me at the moment. 11:0311 minutes, 3 secondsAnd so I, I got a start in customer service and, and so working in customer service was something 11:1011 minutes, 10 secondsthat really, I guess filled the vacancy that I was looking for. 11:1611 minutes, 16 secondsAnd, you know, at the end of the day now, I see it as being a public servant is something that is, I guess 11:2511 minutes, 25 secondsthat runs through my veins is that I, I do get a high amount of gratification or satisfac satisfaction out of being a public servant. 11:3411 minutes, 34 secondsAnd there's multiple ways that you can be a public servant and, and customer service kind of got me into that dabble. 11:4011 minutes, 40 secondsAnd I mean, there was, or able to dabble into that area and, and customer service can mean many things, but I, I really got my start in, you know, quote unquote call centers. 11:5011 minutes, 50 secondsAnd it, it didn't take very long of getting into that where somebody recognized that, hey, you know, you've, 11:5911 minutes, 59 secondsyou've got some leadership, you take initiative, you're a risk taker, you know, you, you've got strong ethics and you've got an ability to talk to people and to show emotions and be empathetic at the same time. 12:1312 minutes, 13 secondsAnd while not all of those are, you know, leadership traits, but a lot of 'em, it serves you very well to have those types of things to work in leadership. 12:2212 minutes, 22 secondsSo it didn't take very long that I was working my way up in leadership positions. 12:2712 minutes, 27 secondsOf course, it takes a little bit extra to continue to, as they say, work your way up the ladder. 12:3612 minutes, 36 secondsIt takes a little, a lot longer when you don't have a college degree to go along with that. 12:4212 minutes, 42 secondsAnd so, yeah, I had to work extra hard to prove, I guess, my worth and, and to prove that I belong in, in that area, which I will just tell you, I, I talk a lot. 12:5412 minutes, 54 secondsSo I think you guys have kind of already kind of seen that and you know, I, it's taken me a while to kind of unpack that and say, you know, why does that happen? 13:0213 minutes, 2 secondsWhy do you talk so much? 13:0313 minutes, 3 secondsAnd it's, it's likely because I needed to prove that I belong, that I belonged at the same table as everybody else. 13:1013 minutes, 10 secondsAnd you talk, I tend to talk a lot to try to prove to people that I do have the knowledge, I do have the skillset, I do have the ability to be there, but customer service really shaped me. 13:2113 minutes, 21 secondsAnd having that ability to give back, whether that's to a customer on the other end of the phone that's looking 13:2913 minutes, 29 secondsfor, let's just face it, people don't call customer service or don't interact at a, at a customer service level because they believe that everything is great, Chapter 9: Transition to Leadership Roles 13:3613 minutes, 36 secondsthey have a problem, which again, hey, wow, that makes me a problem solver and solving problems gives me a purpose and keeps me engaged and keeps me excited. 13:4513 minutes, 45 secondsSo again, that's the kind of that, that instant gratification that was always there. 13:5013 minutes, 50 secondsI could get somebody on the phone or somebody face to face and hear what their problem is and say, I can help solve that problem for you. It's, it's, it's very challenging. 13:5813 minutes, 58 secondsIt's very engaging for me. 13:5913 minutes, 59 secondsBut yeah, there was, you know, after, you know, 20 years of kind of working in customer service, I said to myself, 14:0714 minutes, 7 secondsI can probably do this on my own or do something that was, you know, more on my own. And I was looking to start my own business. 14:1614 minutes, 16 secondsAnd one of the areas that I had never worked on was, was working in the restaurant industry. 14:2214 minutes, 22 secondsAnd again, restaurant industry is something you're face to face with everybody every day. 14:2714 minutes, 27 secondsIt takes a lot of leadership, it takes a a lot of initiative. 14:3214 minutes, 32 secondsThere's a lot of planning that goes into owning a restaurant. 14:3514 minutes, 35 secondsI probably had no business owning a restaurant, never have worked, whether it was, you know, busing tables 14:4214 minutes, 42 secondsor washing dishes or working as a waiter or, you know, front end, back end of a restaurant. I had no experience whatsoever. Probably didn't belong in. 14:5114 minutes, 51 secondsAnd somewhere along the way I convinced somebody that I wanted to be a franchisee and went to this, you know, franchisor and said, you know, 14:5914 minutes, 59 secondsand it's not like, you know, somebody just plunks down a chunk of money and says, I wanna be a franchise franchisors, don't want to have a franchisee that's a failure, because that's on them too, right? 15:1115 minutes, 11 secondsThat's their name, that's their brand. 15:1315 minutes, 13 secondsThey're in the community serving the community in some type of capacity. 15:1715 minutes, 17 secondsThey don't want that either. So there is a, there is an interview process that you have to go through and they're, you know, in, in this case, the, 15:2415 minutes, 24 secondsthe actual owner of the franchise wanted to talk to me personally before they would even allow me to even go forward in the franchise process. 15:3215 minutes, 32 secondsAnd so, you know, I met the, you know, the, the, the franchisee that was, you know, that was offering, you know, and it's, it's not as simple as I think as people think. 15:4215 minutes, 42 secondsAnd I will tell you that out of all of that, that was one of the things that really shaped me further in my career as a leader. 15:5115 minutes, 51 secondsBecause, you know, when you're working for somebody else, you know, the money comes from somebody else, or, you know, when you want to open up another location 16:0016 minutesbecause you're expanding the business, you're doing that on somebody else's dime, or they have to go and get a business loan. 16:0616 minutes, 6 secondsAnd when you're asking, well, it doesn't seem like a lot probably to a lot of people, but when you're putting your house 16:1216 minutes, 12 secondsand your, your own 401k your retirement plan up as collateral so that you can get a, you know, $400,000 loan 16:2216 minutes, 22 secondsto open up a restaurant, which, oh by the way, 50% of every restaurant fails within the first 12 months. 16:2916 minutes, 29 secondsThat's a statistic that that exists. 16:3116 minutes, 31 secondsAnd you have to, you have to go to a bank and say, Hey, I need a loan to go forward, and they're asking you for collateral. 16:4016 minutes, 40 secondsI mean, my family, my wife, whatever is saying, so you're telling me if this, if 50% of every restaurant that opens fails, and that means our house could be taken from us. 16:5016 minutes, 50 secondsI'm not sure that's a risk that, you know, I'm willing to take. 16:5416 minutes, 54 secondsSo not only was it selling the person that owns the franchise to say, Hey, I wanna be part of your brand, but you're also convincing your family that we're gonna be successful. 17:0417 minutes, 4 secondsI would say that we got part of it's luck. A lot of it is a lot of hard work. I could not quit my job. 17:1217 minutes, 12 secondsThat was just something that you don't realize. 17:1417 minutes, 14 secondsAnd I think a lot of people think, oh, you own a you own a business, you must be rich, you know, life must be great for you. 17:2117 minutes, 21 secondsNo, I didn't make any money from it. 17:2417 minutes, 24 secondsRealistically, at the end of the day, you're paying back, you know, this isn't a, a house loan where you're buying a half a million dollar home and you've got 30 years to pay it off. 17:3317 minutes, 33 secondsThe bank wants to pay off in 10 years. 17:3517 minutes, 35 secondsSo everything that you quote unquote make as a profit is going to pay back the loans that you had 17:4317 minutes, 43 secondsto take to do it, because most people just don't have $400,000 sitting around that they can just take and open up a, so it's a lot of work. 17:5017 minutes, 50 secondsSo I was working a full-time job as the chief operating officer of a nonprofit that was one of the largest nonprofits here in the state of Michigan. Chapter 10: Franchise Ownership Challenges 18:0018 minutesSo I, I was doing that 12 hours a day and then literally in the morning before, and I don't want to give away exactly 18:0918 minutes, 9 secondswhat the franchise was, but you guys know it's a restaurant, but the, you know, as they say, the donuts have to be made in the morning, and it was not a donuts, but I mean, the bread has to be baked in the morning, right? 18:1818 minutes, 18 secondsSo if, if the person that shows up at six 30 in the morning to put the dough in the oven doesn't show up, guess who does the b the buck stops with the business owner. 18:2818 minutes, 28 secondsSo I had to either, I had to make sure, so I had to go first thing in the morning to make sure that that's happening. 18:3218 minutes, 32 secondsAnd at the end of the day, somebody's gotta come in, you know, into the business and make sure that everything's getting done. 18:3818 minutes, 38 secondsSo, you know, 12 hour days was, I mean, that's what was my normal job. 18:4318 minutes, 43 secondsAnd now I have to either show up in the morning or, you know, in the afternoon, or at least watch cameras. 18:4918 minutes, 49 secondsI mean, you're traveling in your normal job, you're watching cameras, you're making sure that things are happening within the business, making sure that the orders get done. 18:5618 minutes, 56 secondsBecause if, you know, if food doesn't show up and can't serve your customers, then you're not making any money. So it's, it's a lot of work. 19:0519 minutes, 5 secondsI would just say that it's very gratifying. 19:0819 minutes, 8 secondsAnd there is a lot of things that I learned about, you know, again, like I've said, how do you get a loan? 19:1319 minutes, 13 secondsHow do you write a bus? I had never written a business plan before I've been in business. 19:1719 minutes, 17 secondsI mean, I was running Fortune 500 companies, I was running their customer service. 19:2319 minutes, 23 secondsI was opening up call centers or contact centers across the country, including one in Montego Bay, Jamaica. 19:3019 minutes, 30 secondsSo I guess you could consider that international. 19:3419 minutes, 34 secondsSo I mean, I had a lot of experience, but how do you write a business plan to a bank and prove to them that this is gonna be a profitable business and I'm gonna be able 19:4219 minutes, 42 secondsto pay all this off in the next 10 years and be able to hire staff. 19:4619 minutes, 46 secondsI mean, I had the staffing part of it down, but some of that other, other things, you just, you just can't have that unless you do it. 19:5419 minutes, 54 secondsAnd it takes a lot of work to do it. 19:5719 minutes, 57 secondsI got really lucky that I was ready to expand to five other locations here in Michigan. 20:0220 minutes, 2 secondsAnd my mentor in the restaurant business just happened to, I was, I would meet with him every quarter and, and, 20:1020 minutes, 10 secondsand tell him what was going on and ask for advice, and he would give me advice, and I was ready to go open up four more locations in Michigan. 20:1920 minutes, 19 secondsAnd he was just like, Matt, you, if you are not going to quit your job, if that's your passion, is what you're doing now along with this, you have to pick one. 20:3020 minutes, 30 secondsYou can only do one or the other. 20:3220 minutes, 32 secondsAnd, you know, and to be honest with you, he made an offer to me that I just couldn't refuse, which was six months before Covid hit. 20:4120 minutes, 41 secondsAnd, and I just, I, I have to count some blessings along the way, and I had a lot them that just said this was the right time to do it. 20:5120 minutes, 51 secondsI sat down with my family and talked about it, and as much as I believed in where I was going with this business, and as much as it's still successful today and, and, and, and it's absolutely fantastic. 21:0121 minutes, 1 secondAnd, and, and that, that individual that, that bought it from me, he is super successful in the franchise business. 21:0921 minutes, 9 secondsAnd, and he's taken it to, to a place. And I, I'm, I'm, I'm proud of what I did. 21:1421 minutes, 14 secondsAnd I have zero, as they say, zero regrets in what I did, but it was, it was likely killing me at the same time, physically and mentally. 21:2521 minutes, 25 secondsAnd, and I'll share with the group as, as kind of a public service message, is that listen to your body. 21:3021 minutes, 30 secondsI will tell everybody that, listen to your body, listen to what it's telling you. 21:3421 minutes, 34 secondsAnd I could feel myself being run down, being in too many places at one time. 21:4021 minutes, 40 secondsAnd I literally went to my doctor at the same time that all that was happening, that covid was happening. 21:4521 minutes, 45 secondsI said, something doesn't feel right within me, I don't know what it is. 21:4821 minutes, 48 secondsMy dad passed away at 57 years, young of a massive heart attack, and I just felt something was in me. 21:5721 minutes, 57 secondsAnd I will just tell you, listen to that. 21:5921 minutes, 59 secondsThe short story of it is, is that in October of 2020, in the height of the Covid pandemic, my body really told me something. Chapter 11: Health Journey and Open-Heart Surgery 22:0922 minutes, 9 secondsI went to my doctor, he listened to me and said, I'm gonna send you to a cardiologist. I had no other symptoms other than what I felt was in me. 22:1822 minutes, 18 secondsAnd some people say heart related issues, you get the stabbing in your back, the pain in your left arm, shortness of breath. 22:2422 minutes, 24 secondsI had none of that. I was still playing hot ice hockey twice a week. I didn't have any of those symptoms. 22:2922 minutes, 29 secondsI went to a cardiologist and he said, I don't see anything either, but you have great insurance, so let's check into what's going on inside of you. 22:3722 minutes, 37 secondsAnd ended up finding out I needed open heart surgery. 22:4022 minutes, 40 secondsAnd so October 8th, so I just had my four year anniversary, October 8th, they went in and took a look and said, you have three blockages. 22:4822 minutes, 48 secondsOne of them was 95% blocked. 22:5022 minutes, 50 secondsI probably would've ended up like my father with zero symptoms and just walking down the street and dropping dead. I hate to say it so bluntly, but that was it. 22:5822 minutes, 58 secondsSo I had open heart surgery, I had a triple bypass, but safe to, so today I can say, in fact, I just had my, my annual physical and cardiologist appointment this morning. 23:0823 minutes, 8 secondsAnd so I've got a clean bill of health and all my, all my results are are down to where they're supposed to be. 23:1523 minutes, 15 secondsAnd I still play hockey twice a week. So I I I, I'm, I'm good. 23:1923 minutes, 19 secondsBut please, my, my public service message is, is it's to listen to what you're, to what's happening. 23:2523 minutes, 25 secondsBut sorry, I'll get us back on track. Is that, - No, I think that that was excellent. That actually is the very next track. 23:3323 minutes, 33 secondsYou were starting your own franchise, or excuse me, having, having a franchise 23:4023 minutes, 40 secondsthat you were growing and then you also were, you still had a full-time job at the exact same time, meanwhile still doing hockey, 23:5023 minutes, 50 secondsstill being a family man and still getting your associate's degree, right? - Yes. So that actually, that's a great segue. 23:5823 minutes, 58 secondsSo, you know, I had sold my franchise. 24:0224 minutes, 2 secondsI was working, I was five years as a chief operating officer at one of the largest nonprofits that was serving the public, 24:0924 minutes, 9 secondshelping low income families in the state of Michigan with their heating and electric bills in your neighborhood. 24:1624 minutes, 16 secondsIt's probably cooling, but there, there's a, there's a large federal program that that helps low income families. 24:2324 minutes, 23 secondsAnd, and again, I was getting a lot of satisfaction out of that, and it just, all at the same time that 24:2924 minutes, 29 secondsthat was happening, I was headhunted for the first time in my life, I was headhunted. 24:3624 minutes, 36 secondsSomebody came to me and said, we have an opportunity that sounds like it fits you. 24:4324 minutes, 43 secondsAnd, and I'm gonna tell this story because at the end of that first couple 24:4924 minutes, 49 secondsof interviews, I got a call from the recruiter, which is a story that I had heard so many times over 25, 30 years, was, wow, Matt, they really like you. 25:0225 minutes, 2 secondsOr Matt, we looked at your resume, man, that's impressive, but you don't have a bachelor's degree. 25:1025 minutes, 10 secondsAnd it was just that sinking feeling that I had received several times over. 25:1725 minutes, 17 secondsThat was, you know, in my jobs, in my roles that I had, I was progressing. But again, like I said before, I had to prove myself. 25:2625 minutes, 26 secondsI had to constantly work harder than everybody else to prove it. 25:3025 minutes, 30 secondsBut if I, I knew that I just couldn't go out and apply for any job that was out there, because when they would look at my resume, 25:3825 minutes, 38 secondsI probably didn't get the phone calls that some other people would get. 25:4225 minutes, 42 secondsOr again, I'd go through the, get through the door, get to the interview, and then Matt, you don't have that bachelor's degree. 25:4925 minutes, 49 secondsAnd this was one of those cases where I was headhunted, I was super excited, I knew what the job opportunity was and I knew who it was with, which is where I'm at today. 26:0026 minutesAnd the recruiter called me and said, Matt, we're at a, we're at a, we're at a standstill because it requires you to have a bachelor's degree. 26:0826 minutes, 8 secondsI'm sorry, I didn't catch that. 26:0926 minutes, 9 secondsI just assumed with your background and your resume that it was there. 26:1526 minutes, 15 secondsAnd I was sitting in my car in a parking structure just thinking to myself, here we go again. 26:2326 minutes, 23 secondsRight? And luckily enough, 48 hours later, I got a phone call. 26:2826 minutes, 28 secondsI said, Matt, they're gonna move forward with a final interview. 26:3226 minutes, 32 secondsYou're gonna meet with the director who is the CEO and, and the COO. You're gonna meet with those two individuals. 26:4026 minutes, 40 secondsThey've agreed to meet with you because of your resume. 26:4426 minutes, 44 secondsAnd, and again, I I, I was going into it still thinking to myself, kind of the wah you know, this will probably be just another, another one of these times I got lucky. 26:5526 minutes, 55 secondsI got really lucky that the, the individual, the, the, the director, the see and anywhere else and, Chapter 12: Pursuing Higher Education Later in Life 27:0227 minutes, 2 secondsand city government, it's the director of the department, but anywhere else it would be the CEO of the water department actually knew me through somebody else 27:1027 minutes, 10 secondsand said, I know you, I, now I know faced with a name and at, at the end of the process, I got the job. 27:1827 minutes, 18 secondsAnd so, and that leads me to kind of where you were going with this was within my first 60 days on the job. 27:2927 minutes, 29 secondsAnd, and I'm gonna tell you his name, his name is Gary Brown. 27:3227 minutes, 32 secondsAnd he sat down with me and, and he said, you know, Matt, and at first I'm like, I'm only here for a couple months. 27:3827 minutes, 38 secondsAnd oh my God, now the, the big guy wants to talk to me like I did I do something wrong? 27:4227 minutes, 42 secondsOf course, that's always, you know, everybody's kind of first thought, right? Going to the principal's office. 27:4627 minutes, 46 secondsAnd Gary sat down with me and he told me kind of his, his story, which really resonated. 27:5227 minutes, 52 secondsHe said, Matt, you know, I, I graduated from high school and I became a bagger at a, at a, at a grocery store. 28:0028 minutesAnd was kind of like, well, where am I gonna go from here? And I joined the military. 28:0428 minutes, 4 secondsHe went to Vietnam, had a good, you know, good and moved his kind of way up a little bit in the military, came back and took that background to become a police officer. 28:1428 minutes, 14 secondsAnd he really wanted to get into some of the other specialized areas, you know, whether that's, you know, internal affairs or the narcotics, narcotics department, that type of thing. 28:2428 minutes, 24 secondsAnd he was told along the way, Hey, look, you've got a great career going for you, but in order to get into these other areas, you have 28:3128 minutes, 31 secondsto have, you know, an extended, you know, education, you have to have a bachelor's degree, whatever. And he was like, I'm just not sure that's me. 28:3928 minutes, 39 secondsAnd he fought through it, did all those things. He became the deputy chief of the city of Detroit. 28:4428 minutes, 44 secondsSo I mean this, there's a guy and ended up becoming president of city council with the city of Detroit. 28:4928 minutes, 49 secondsSo thi this, Gary was from a military background to, you know, law enforcement to becoming, you know, a government public servant, right? 29:0129 minutes, 1 secondAnd he said, Matt, I trust that you will deliver everything that I've, that I need you to deliver in your position. 29:0829 minutes, 8 secondsAnd here comes the, but, but if you wanna, where I see you going and where I think you can go, I'm sorry to tell you, 29:1729 minutes, 17 secondsbut same thing somebody told me, if you wanna go continue up through the leadership ranks 29:2329 minutes, 23 secondsand continue on with this career with the city, you're gonna have to have a bachelor's degree. 29:3229 minutes, 32 secondsAnd so that's when I started, I said, okay, what do I need to do? Where do I need to start? 29:3629 minutes, 36 secondsAnd again, kind of that, you know, you make the phone calls and you know, I around and it was like, oh, you gotta start over, and you're how old again? 29:4529 minutes, 45 secondsAnd you know, oh, we can't accept those credits here. 29:4829 minutes, 48 secondsAnd yeah, your credits are, you know, 25, 30 years old that can't happen. 29:5329 minutes, 53 secondsAnd so my first step was getting my, getting my associate's degree, and I went back to my, you know, my, where I had the most amount of credits. 30:0130 minutes, 1 secondAnd I went, asked that university, Hey, can I come back to school? 30:0430 minutes, 4 secondsThey said, Hey, you only need two more classes and you can get a, an associate's degree in, in pre-teaching elementary. 30:1130 minutes, 11 secondsAnd I was like, Hey, two classes, I can do that. 30:1430 minutes, 14 secondsSo I got done with those two classes, but I gotta tell you, those two classes were really hard. 30:1930 minutes, 19 secondsThey were 15 weeks long a piece, and it was kind of a traditional classroom setting. 30:2530 minutes, 25 secondsAnd I was having deja vu of, oh my God, I don't, this is really, really hard for me to do. 30:3330 minutes, 33 secondsAnd it was on their time, not my time. 30:3830 minutes, 38 secondsSo again, I'm trying to balance my career in school, and when that was done, I got my associate's degree, I was on a high, I will tell you, I was like, I did it. 30:4630 minutes, 46 secondsI got, I got the piece of paper, I have my associate's degree, but that's, that's not what I need to have done. 30:5330 minutes, 53 secondsAnd I called around there, the, the city of Detroit has numerous partnerships with multiple universities and where you can go, Chapter 13: Finding Flexibility with Online Learning 31:0131 minutes, 1 secondand I will, and this is, you know, I know this will sound like my endorsement of University of Phoenix, but the recruiter that I talked to was 31:1131 minutes, 11 secondsso engaging and so exciting, it probably, it matched my energy. And I got excited, I got really excited by it. 31:1931 minutes, 19 secondsAnd, you know, her words were, when I was, you know, that first conversation was, Matt, let me do the work for you. 31:2631 minutes, 26 secondsLet me give me the permission to look at all of you. 31:3131 minutes, 31 secondsAnd I had two community colleges, two community colleges, and two universities that all my credits were coming from. 31:4031 minutes, 40 secondsSo that's four that this individual had to look up from 1990, okay. 31:4631 minutes, 46 secondsFor probably 10 years worth of credits where I dabbled in going back to school at some point in time, had to do all that work. 31:5331 minutes, 53 secondsAnd I got a call back within a day or two and said, Matt, I've got some great news. 31:5731 minutes, 57 secondsWe can transfer almost every single credit you've ever taken, and your journey is not gonna be another four years. 32:0632 minutes, 6 secondsIt's not even gonna be another two years. 32:0832 minutes, 8 secondsAnd oh, by the way, you can do this all on your time, and the classes are less than two months long. 32:1532 minutes, 15 secondsAnd I will, and she, and I think the thing that really got me was that news, I, she probably told me another 10, 15 minutes worth of stuff. 32:2332 minutes, 23 secondsAnd I was, I have no idea what she said because I was just like, what, I can do this in less than two years and the classes are short 32:3132 minutes, 31 secondsand I can do it on my time, whether that's my lunch hour after work on weekends, whatever it has. 32:3832 minutes, 38 secondsAnd I'll let you know the secret, if you can sneak in getting your homework done and doing the study classes and you know, studying 32:4632 minutes, 46 secondsand replying and all the things that are required, if you can do that on your lunch hour and stay an extra hour 32:5232 minutes, 52 secondsor two after work every day while you're already in your groove, you're already sitting at your computer, everything is set up that, at least for me, that was my secret. 33:0233 minutes, 2 secondsAnd I can eat my lunch and I can read, and the, the thing with University of Phoenix was, is 33:0933 minutes, 9 secondsthat there's even an option when you can, you can hit a button and it will read the chapters for you. 33:1533 minutes, 15 secondsSo I could eat my lunch and listen to what was going on. 33:1933 minutes, 19 secondsAnd to me, it was ex it was just, it provided that path to say, I don't have to set aside all this time, I can do it while I'm doing other work. 33:2833 minutes, 28 secondsIt was, it was almost, I hate to say it was like a game, but it was like a game. 33:3333 minutes, 33 secondsIt was like, I can listen, eat my lunch, and still stay at work and I don't have to do this on Saturdays and Sundays. 33:3933 minutes, 39 secondsI, and I knew my deadlines and the recruiter put together the plan for me to say, you know, from January through February 15th, this is 33:4733 minutes, 47 secondswhat you're gonna do, and then starting on this date, this is your next class. 33:5133 minutes, 51 secondsAnd then I got the phone calls and, and I will tell you, I took this learning, and this is what we do today, is that every time I got done with the class, I got a text message, Matt, you did it. Chapter 14: Key Lessons and Reflections on Education 34:0034 minutesAnd there was this confetti that fell from the screen. 34:0334 minutes, 3 secondsAnd, and, and I take that now when my customers make a payment and say, I paid, we do a text message that gives fireworks 34:1334 minutes, 13 secondsor something else, or just, Hey, congratulations, you did it to me. That was like instant gratification to say, I did it. I, this is an accomplishment for me. 34:2234 minutes, 22 secondsSo I've taken some of these learning experiences that I got from University of Phoenix and, and applied this. 34:2934 minutes, 29 secondsAnd I will tell you that I think, look, I I, I do have the experience. 34:3334 minutes, 33 secondsI'm not bragging, it's not that I'm special or anything else, but I have a lot of experience. 34:3734 minutes, 37 secondsSo I could provide a lot of experiences to other and to my classmates in class 34:4434 minutes, 44 secondsand say, Hey, these are the things I literally experienced today. And I got to share that with them. 34:5234 minutes, 52 secondsAnd of course, there was individuals, my class, there was my, some of my classmates were much younger than I am that didn't have some of the experiences, 35:0035 minutesbut had experiences from their level and experiences from what they're facing day to day, which, 35:0735 minutes, 7 secondsoh, by the way, are some of my customers, those are, some of my employees are that I'm hiring, that I'm trying to recruit. 35:1635 minutes, 16 secondsIt gave me a different perspective that I know I would've never had in a classroom setting, because in a classroom setting, it's, you come in, 35:2535 minutes, 25 secondsyou sit down, you do what you gotta do, you take your three hour lecture, God forbid, right? 35:3035 minutes, 30 secondsTake my three hour lecture and I'm up and I'm out the door because now it's nine. 35:3335 minutes, 33 secondsAnd this is what I, this is where I was at, it was, my classes in the classroom were for some six to nine at night. 35:3935 minutes, 39 secondsSo at nine o'clock I wanna get home, I wanna see my kids, I wanna say hi to them, I wanna see my wife, I want to eat dinner and then, you know, go to bed, right? 35:4835 minutes, 48 secondsAnd so the University of Phoenix takes that to a completely different level where not only am I doing this on my time, so I do get to see my kids. 35:5635 minutes, 56 secondsI get to go to their, you know, marching band events, the football games where, where they're doing their marching on the field, that's their thing. 36:0336 minutes, 3 secondsI get to do all that because that stuff happens after work. I don't have to be in a classroom from six to nine a night. 36:1036 minutes, 10 secondsAnd even my wife, my wife went back to school just before I did because her employer was the same way. 36:1636 minutes, 16 secondsHey, you're a contractor with a major automotive manufacturer, you can pick one of the three. 36:2236 minutes, 22 secondsAnd they told her the same thing, you, we cannot hire you on full-time until you get your bachelor's degree. 36:2936 minutes, 29 secondsSo she went to, she went back to school, but the university that she picked, which did not have had traditional type of classroom settings, 36:3836 minutes, 38 secondsso on Saturdays and Sundays, once a month, she had to drive to another city that was almost two hours away and stay at a hotel and, and sit all day in a classroom to get the time in. 36:5136 minutes, 51 secondsAnd she missed the events that our children went to that I got to do because she had to do that. 36:5936 minutes, 59 secondsAnd University of Phoenix 100% allowed me to still have time with my family still, I will tell you 37:0737 minutes, 7 secondsthat my boss and my boss's boss had no idea that I was doing this. 37:1437 minutes, 14 secondsAlthough I, I mean, as far as taking classes, you know, and, and they knew I was taking classes and they knew I was getting my bachelor's degree because they were completely supportive of it, but they didn't know that I was doing it on my lunch hour. 37:2537 minutes, 25 secondsThey didn't know that I was doing it right after work. 37:2737 minutes, 27 secondsThey just assumed it was a traditional classroom where, you know, after work I had to get somewhere to, you know, have a classroom setting. 37:3537 minutes, 35 secondsSo it, it was, it, I was the University of Phoenix. 37:3937 minutes, 39 secondsJust the, the opportunity for working adults is absolutely fantastic. 37:4537 minutes, 45 secondsAnd now that I see my kids, it's interesting how the univer, the traditional university setting has started to pick up, 37:5537 minutes, 55 secondsI think on the learnings that University of Phoenix has been doing for years. And, and so they now have, they call it flex learning. 38:0438 minutes, 4 secondsI, I think they come up with some new names for it. 38:0538 minutes, 5 secondsBut, you know, I, it was kind of like, wait a minute, you're at school, you're away from school in a dorm setting and you only have to, you're, you have three classes, 38:1438 minutes, 14 secondsyou know, your what your one class meets three times a week, but only one of those classes in person. The rest of it is online and it's when you want to do it. 38:2438 minutes, 24 secondsI thought it was very interesting that, wow, this is, this has already been going on from a university that's, I guess probably perfected it. 38:3338 minutes, 33 seconds- Absolutely, absolutely. I'm a little biased, but I'd have to agree. 38:3838 minutes, 38 seconds- I'm sure you're, I'm too, - I do know as you speak about your boss 38:4438 minutes, 44 secondsand your boss's boss, that they were instru instrumental to you going back to school and believing in you saying, you know, I, I know that you're young and I can see that you're a leader. 38:5638 minutes, 56 secondsYou have all of this incredible experience, but there's this one thing that we need for you to qualify. 39:0139 minutes, 1 secondTell us the story about when you got the email with the confetti that your degree had been confirmed. 39:1139 minutes, 11 seconds- Yeah. You know, that's it, it, it, it was one of those, I think I, I call 'em twinky dink moments, 39:2039 minutes, 20 secondsbut yeah, I, I, I received the email that said everything's gone. 39:2439 minutes, 24 secondsYou know, everything's been, I think they call it the audit process. So the audit process is complete. 39:2839 minutes, 28 secondsAll your classes are there, you know, you, you, you officially have done it. Of course, that excitement was, was fantastic. 39:3639 minutes, 36 secondsI literally, as soon as the, the ability to print that letter, that email or what, however it comes through, as soon as it came through, I took it right to my boss. 39:4539 minutes, 45 secondsI took it right to Deb and I, and I said, Deb, I said, I did it. 39:4939 minutes, 49 secondsAnd, and I mean, the tears that came out of her eyes, she gave me a huge hug. 39:5639 minutes, 56 secondsThat was the moment that I knew like this hard work that I had put into it had paid off. 40:0340 minutes, 3 secondsAnd, and that, you know, we knew you could do it, that type of thing. 40:0640 minutes, 6 secondsAnd I should add that along the way, you know, of the journey at University of Phoenix, it was interesting to hear the feedback that I was getting to say, Matt, you seem way more confident. 40:1840 minutes, 18 secondsYou know, you, you, you are taking more risks than, than you took before. 40:2340 minutes, 23 secondsYou are leading in a different way, the confidence that you have and how you present yourself. 40:2940 minutes, 29 secondsAnd at the moment, I was hearing those things going, all right, that's pretty good. 40:3340 minutes, 33 secondsYou know? And now that I look back on it, it was because not only going back to school 40:4040 minutes, 40 secondsand knowing what I was going to accomplish was there, but it was also, I was learning things that I hadn't been exposed to 40:4740 minutes, 47 secondsbefore through my coursework that was giving me that confidence. 40:5240 minutes, 52 secondsBut back to your, back to your original question, I I, i, it always takes me a while to get there. 40:5840 minutes, 58 secondsIs that, so I just had that, it, it only been a few days, and I had recently been promoted, not Gary, Gary had not asked me that, my, my boss's boss, right? 41:1041 minutes, 10 secondsThat's, that's Gary. He reports directly to the mayor. 41:1241 minutes, 12 secondsHe's the big guy. And, and he was the one that really sent me on this journey and gave me that story that I just told you. 41:2041 minutes, 20 secondsAnd he had just recently, within the past few months, had promoted me to chief of staff. 41:2641 minutes, 26 secondsThis is a position that did not exist within the water department, and it was something new. 41:3141 minutes, 31 secondsAnd I think we can all put together what a chief of staff is. 41:3441 minutes, 34 secondsAnd in fact, I was kind of, he, he told me that in front of a bunch of, in front of the executive team, because there's 11, 12 other people in this room. 41:4241 minutes, 42 secondsAnd he says, I just wanna let everybody know that I've made Matt, my chief of staff. 41:4641 minutes, 46 secondsAnd I was kind of like, like me, like you didn't even have this conversation with me. And, and I said to him afterwards, I said, what's going on? 41:5541 minutes, 55 secondsAnd he was like, I believe in you 100% less than a month later, I have confirmation that I've had this degree. 42:0342 minutes, 3 secondsGary comes in to talk to me, I don't even know what it was. 42:0642 minutes, 6 secondsHe comes in my office and, you know, I just gotten these hugs and, and everything from Deb and I just hadn't had a chance to, to tell Gary yet. 42:1442 minutes, 14 secondsAnd I don't, again, I don't even know what he was coming in for. I'm, I know it wasn't this. And I said, Gary, hang on a second. I have to share this with you. 42:2242 minutes, 22 secondsAnd I, I had the, I must have had four or five copies, not gonna lie to you of it, so I could show people, but I said, Gary, I did it on 42:3042 minutes, 30 secondsand on July 31st, I will get the official degree, but I have officially graduated 42:3742 minutes, 37 secondsand I've completed all my coursework, and now I have a bachelor's degree in business management. And he literally stopped in his tracks. 42:4642 minutes, 46 secondsHe hadn't even sat down, he was still standing there. 42:4942 minutes, 49 secondsAnd the, and he's, I mean, he's not a very emotional guy, but he is a very sensitive guy. 42:5642 minutes, 56 secondsBut the look on his face, I've never seen him embrace anybody, but he, he, I was like, ready to shake his hand 43:0443 minutes, 4 secondsand he put his arms out and I was like, he gave me the pat and he said, I'm so proud of you brother, you know, and, and I was like, oh my God. 43:1043 minutes, 10 secondsLike, those types of terms from this guy just was not what I expected. 43:1743 minutes, 17 secondsAnd, and he was like, he said, he's like, I'm so proud of you. I, I just am. And he said, this could not come at a better moment. 43:2643 minutes, 26 secondsAnd he just kind of like stopped and stared at me for a few minutes and he turned around and wa and, and walked out. He never told me what it was he was coming in for. 43:3543 minutes, 35 secondsI do know, you know, through the background that I think there was some, some people that were like, how did this guy get chief of staff role? 43:4343 minutes, 43 secondsHow did this guy move up in this organization? 43:4543 minutes, 45 secondsWe know he doesn't have a degree, you know, blah, blah, blah. 43:4943 minutes, 49 secondsI, I, I'm sure those people were out there and, and maybe rightfully so, but I think Gary now had, in his heart, he was saying, 43:5843 minutes, 58 secondsI made the right decision, you know, and, and it's not you, you know, look, it's not easy. It's not easy to have a career. 44:0544 minutes, 5 secondsIt's not easy to be working the hours that that, that we all work regardless of what position you're in. You have a full-time job and a family. 44:1244 minutes, 12 secondsIt, it, it's a lot of work. 44:1444 minutes, 14 secondsAnd then you add going back to school and taking these courses and, and having to be diligent about what you do. 44:2344 minutes, 23 secondsIt's not easy to do. It's not easy to juggle all those things at a time. 44:2644 minutes, 26 secondsAnd I'm sure Gary recognized that he had gone through it himself and to know that, you know, in his heart, he knew he made the right decision. 44:3544 minutes, 35 secondsI'm, I'm glad that he did. And so, you know, I think this kind of solidified what he had done and, 44:4244 minutes, 42 secondsand gave him the everybody you can all just kinda, you know, you can all go away now because the guy did what he was supposed to do and what I asked him to do, and he did it, and he did it with flying colors. 44:5344 minutes, 53 secondsAnd look, I'm, I'm not a genius by any means, and, and I struggle with everything that I do, but I put my heart 45:0145 minutes, 1 secondand soul into it and, you know, I got, I got great grades at University of Phoenix stuff that I just totally did not expect to have 45:1045 minutes, 10 secondsall the extra things that come along with that and, and the accolades that you get. And it was, it was a, a super gratifying experience. 45:1945 minutes, 19 secondsI hopefully you can see that in my facial expressions. I, it, it, I am proud of myself. 45:2545 minutes, 25 secondsI, I, I did, I put in the work and you know, I I, I can see it. I, I can see the payoff, the benefit is 100% there. 45:3345 minutes, 33 secondsI have zero regrets about, about doing it. 45:3745 minutes, 37 secondsThere's other things in my life I do have regrets about, but this is one that stands out 100% of one of the best things that I've, I've done in my life. So, 45:4545 minutes, 45 seconds- Well, it's so incredible that we had the opportunity to be a part of this, this part of your journey 45:5545 minutes, 55 secondsto be able to help you have more confidence and what it is that you were already excellent at. 46:0346 minutes, 3 secondsYou've already been an excellent service leader. 46:0646 minutes, 6 secondsYou've already had a, a substantial amount of experience in business going from nonprofit 46:1546 minutes, 15 secondsto, to owning your own business and now being able to utilize those same experiences and to do so with a degree. 46:2546 minutes, 25 secondsHow pivotal has it been to have such a great support system? 46:3146 minutes, 31 secondsYou have your incredible family, you have bosses who don't just believe in you, but they literally push you 46:3946 minutes, 39 secondsand put you in and give you a position you didn't know about and announce in a meeting with, with you finding out at the exact same time, right? 46:5046 minutes, 50 secondsAnd then just to, to see him come alongside you and just be so happy for you and accomplishing that goal. 46:5946 minutes, 59 secondsWhat that type of leadership, do you think that receiving and experiencing that type of leadership, does that affect how you actually lead as well? 47:1147 minutes, 11 seconds- Oh, I would say a hundred percent because it gives you, it gives you that perspective 47:1847 minutes, 18 secondsthat I, I mean that's, not everybody's gonna go through the same experience, right? 47:2347 minutes, 23 secondsBut it now, so I have, I'll give you two real life, and that's probably the best way to do it, is that I've, 47:3347 minutes, 33 secondsI had two other individuals that I had worked with, I would say at least 12 or 13 years that I had mentored them. 47:4347 minutes, 43 secondsI had brought them up along the way that didn't, they did not have degrees either. 47:4847 minutes, 48 secondsAnd so when I started this journey and, and we don't work at the same places anymore. 47:5247 minutes, 52 secondsWe work together for 10 to 12 years together, but we don't, we no longer work together, but we stay in contact and, and I knew they still did not have their degrees. 48:0148 minutes, 1 secondAnd when I started with University of Phoenix, I actually, and you know, we try to catch up with each other every three or four months just to see what's going on. 48:0948 minutes, 9 secondsAnd these two colleagues, I actually said, Hey, guess what I'm doing? 48:1448 minutes, 14 secondsAnd they were like, what? Like, you know, I didn't think that was you. 48:1748 minutes, 17 secondsAnd I was like, well, I, I didn't think it was either, but you know, I have to do this. 48:2148 minutes, 21 secondsAnd oh, by the way, I'm actually having a little bit of fun with it. Don't tell anybody, but I'm having fun. 48:2748 minutes, 27 secondsAnd both of those individuals, they both now go to University of Phoenix based on my, 48:3548 minutes, 35 secondsI guess my experience with university before I even finished and got my degree. 48:3848 minutes, 38 secondsSo this was just something I was sharing with them along the way. 48:4348 minutes, 43 secondsAnd there's another individual that I work with today that I know does not have a degree, that does have a pretty high level position. 48:5248 minutes, 52 secondsAnd one of the things that I took from that experience with, with my leadership staff and how they encourage me was I'm going to encourage her. 49:0349 minutes, 3 secondsAnd I know that it was something that she had on her list and things, you know, that she wanted to do. 49:1049 minutes, 10 secondsIt just, and, and I, I've now given her the encouragement to say, you can do this and I will support you along the way. 49:1849 minutes, 18 secondsTell me what you need. 49:2049 minutes, 20 secondsYou know, how can I be accommodating to your journey and let me know if there's something that I can do. 49:2649 minutes, 26 secondsAnd, and you mentioned another thing too, which is, you know, your family, you can also lean on your family. 49:3149 minutes, 31 secondsI will say that, you know, my my oldest daughter when I was starting my journey, had just graduated from high school. 49:3749 minutes, 37 secondsShe was starting, you know, her higher education journey. 49:4349 minutes, 43 secondsMy youngest daughter was just starting high school and I leaned a lot on them. I look, I, I'm not, I, I struggle with math. 49:5249 minutes, 52 secondsIt, it's, it's difficult for me because I'm trying to figure out, you know, how to integers and everything else. 49:5949 minutes, 59 secondsHow does that, how to, where am I gonna use that in my job? That's, I, I don't use that, so it doesn't make sense to me. And so I had a difficult time relating to it. 50:0850 minutes, 8 secondsI, I leaned on my family, I leaned on both my daughters to say, help me out with this, 50:1550 minutes, 15 secondshelp me understand these concepts because I, I'm, I'm struggling with it. 50:2050 minutes, 20 secondsAnd so there are things, it's not just support that you can rely on your family with, but there's other things that, you know, you, 50:2750 minutes, 27 secondsyou don't know, maybe your spouse or significant other, or your children have some experiences that they can help you at least give you a little bit 50:3550 minutes, 35 secondsof guidance or even just, you know, Hey dad, we know you can do it. It's, it, it was interesting. 50:4150 minutes, 41 secondsAnd when I graduated from University of Phoenix, you know, I was like, okay, I did it. 50:4750 minutes, 47 secondsAnd, and, and my, my, both my daughters and my wife were like, well, do you get to walk? 50:5250 minutes, 52 secondsDo you get to do? And I'm like, I don't think that they do that. 50:5550 minutes, 55 secondsI don't think that that happens. I did find out that they act, there actually is a ceremony that happens, but it's in, it's in California, I think was the one that was happening in 2023. 51:0651 minutes, 6 secondsAnd I was like, well, I can't, I just, you know, I can't fly to California just for this, and I would want my family to be there too. It just probably wasn't in the cards. 51:1551 minutes, 15 secondsBut I did find out that you can order a cap and gown and you can get cords and you can do all those things. 51:2151 minutes, 21 secondsAnd my kids were like, dad, you gotta do it. 51:2551 minutes, 25 secondsYou got, and I was like, I don't know if that's, you know, is that cheesy? I don't know. So I ordered my cap and gown. It's not that expensive. 51:3351 minutes, 33 secondsI got the cords to go along with, you know, my GPA and you know, and so anyways, I, I got all that. 51:4151 minutes, 41 secondsThey had me put it all on and they took pictures of me outside with it on. So it was, that part of it was, was kind of neat. 51:5051 minutes, 50 secondsSo you can make it part of your family and your family will celebrate your successes with you and you should celebrate those successes. That's a, it is an achievement. 51:5951 minutes, 59 secondsAnd there's, you know, it gives you a lot of confidence that you never thought of. 52:0552 minutes, 5 secondsAnd you know, now when people ask me, I don't, I don't beat around the bush, you know, when, when you're talking to other colleagues. 52:1252 minutes, 12 secondsIn fact, I had my first opportunity, not that long ago, I was, I was invited to go to San Diego to, they paid for me 52:1952 minutes, 19 secondsto fly out there to a waterworks organization that supports affordability 52:2852 minutes, 28 secondsand water conservation, which are two things that are near and dear to my heart that I, that I do here in Detroit. And they invited me out there to be a keynote speaker. 52:3852 minutes, 38 secondsAnd so I'm like, me like, wow. 52:4252 minutes, 42 secondsSo I got to go, they threw me out there and I got to do that. 52:4452 minutes, 44 secondsAnd it was one of the things when I was meeting with the moderator and some other folks that, that were leading this, this, this conference was, so Matt tell us, you know, where'd you go to school? 52:5452 minutes, 54 secondsWhere'd you graduate from? And I was like, I graduated from University of Phoenix and it just rolled right off my tongue. And, and they said, wow, how long ago was that? 53:0253 minutes, 2 secondsAnd I was like, well, it was about 12 months ago. 53:0453 minutes, 4 secondsAnd so they were like kind of looking at me like, if, if I had hair it would be gray. But they were like, wow. Like just a year ago. 53:1253 minutes, 12 secondsAnd I was like, yep. As a matter of fact, it was just a year ago. And so proud of what I accomplished. 53:1753 minutes, 17 secondsSo at the first of the year, I'll be starting my master's program with University of Phoenix. - Congratulations. Thank you. That's excellent. 53:2453 minutes, 24 secondsWas just going to tell you, you know, you can still walk. I believe we have one here in Arizona coming up fairly soon. 53:3253 minutes, 32 secondsSo if you still want it to walk, I'm confident we'd be able to work that out for you. 53:3653 minutes, 36 secondsSo talk to the family, see if that's something that you wanna do. But how exciting your master's degree is. It also gonna be in business? 53:4353 minutes, 43 seconds- It is. Makes sense. - Well, early congratulations. It completely does. 53:4853 minutes, 48 secondsIt completely does. Tell me more about the affordable program that you created. 53:5553 minutes, 55 seconds- Yeah, so one of the things I'm really passionate about is, is is helping low income families be successful? 54:0554 minutes, 5 secondsAnd it's, it's difficult to do on a low income and, and you have a lot of competing priorities, whether 54:1454 minutes, 14 secondsthat's medical issues, keeping food on the table, to, to, you know, helping your kids, you know, with their homework. 54:2354 minutes, 23 secondsYou know, there, there's, there's all kinds of resource issues that happen with homes. And I have a real big, you know, passion about it. 54:3054 minutes, 30 secondsAnd it's, it's something that's near and dear to my heart. 54:3354 minutes, 33 secondsAnd, you know, I've worked in a lot of different areas around affordability issues in the, in the heating and cooling space. 54:4154 minutes, 41 secondsWe sometimes we call that gas, you know, natural gas and electricity and that type of thing. And, and being with the water department, that's just it. 54:4854 minutes, 48 secondsIt's something that, you know, the basis of it is, is that you cannot live more than your organs start to shut down in your body after three days of having no water. 54:5954 minutes, 59 secondsThat's, you can ask the World Health Organization, you can look it up anywhere you want. 55:0355 minutes, 3 secondsAnd, and most people will, most humans, after five days of no water will, will die. 55:1155 minutes, 11 secondsThat's just the way it is. I mean, you can live days, weeks without food. 55:1755 minutes, 17 secondsMost of us can somehow find a way to, you know, not have electricity in their house for weeks at a time. 55:2755 minutes, 27 secondsAnd in fact, that that, that was one of the kind of catalysts was, you know, I was, I was sitting watching, 55:3455 minutes, 34 secondsyou know, your typical, you know, shows that they have on TV about homesteading and that type of thing where, you know, what's the first thing that they do? 55:4255 minutes, 42 secondsThey, I, I gotta, I gotta find water, find a source of water, and I gotta find shelter. 55:4655 minutes, 46 secondsThose are the two things. And so they make TV shows out of this stuff, right? 55:5155 minutes, 51 secondsAnd I'm watching this going, how is it that we can allow a family to go without water and, and what can we do? 56:0156 minutes, 1 secondAnd they have these competing priorities within their home. 56:0456 minutes, 4 secondsAnd one of the things, you know, I, I was trying to figure out was, you know, how do we make, you know, how do we make water affordable? 56:1256 minutes, 12 secondsWhat other things are out there when I say things, what type of resources are available? 56:1856 minutes, 18 secondsWhether that's, you know, at a state level, a, a local level, a, a federal that can, that we can couple, right? 56:2656 minutes, 26 secondsAnd, and how do we, how can we take some of these financial resources together and still make things dignified within the home? 56:3456 minutes, 34 secondsPeople want to pay their bills. 56:3756 minutes, 37 secondsPeople want to contribute to the success of their household, and people have pride and people will go without so that they can keep pride in other things at the forefront. 56:5156 minutes, 51 secondsAnd so one of the things we looked at is what would be affordable? 56:5456 minutes, 54 secondsAnd, you know, what, what, what are the percentages that people could afford to pay within, within a household? 57:0057 minutesAnd we found that if you live at or below the poverty level, paying $18 a month towards your water bill is affordable. 57:0857 minutes, 8 secondsSo we had to figure out how do you, how do, how do we supplement the rest of the bill, right? 57:1457 minutes, 14 secondsIf, so, if the typical water bill is, you know, 80, I'm making up numbers, but $80 a month and you can afford to pay $20 a month, how, how can we, 57:2257 minutes, 22 secondshow can we find ways to supplement through, through other means? 57:2857 minutes, 28 secondsSo once we accomplished that, that it was, now, how do we take other people that don't have this line 57:3557 minutes, 35 secondsthat they can draw with their paycheck to say, I'm living below poverty level, I need assistance. How do we take the rest of us? 57:4457 minutes, 44 secondsAnd I say us because there's the rest of us in the world that have the same competing priorities, but are now juggling. 57:5257 minutes, 52 secondsIt's, it's, it's a matter of, well, I can pay my water bill, but I can't afford to pay my, my electric bill right now today. 57:5957 minutes, 59 secondsSo how do we find different ways? 58:0258 minutes, 2 secondsAnd, and I, and, and I was like, literally, how do we make things easy? 58:0758 minutes, 7 secondsAnd somebody else, one of my colleagues said to me, well, how do we make it easy to pay? 58:1258 minutes, 12 secondsAnd so we, we kind of put that together and we came up with easy pay. How do we, how do we take? 58:1958 minutes, 19 secondsAnd, and we had all of, we had, we had a large percentage of our customers within the city that were behind in their water bill, 58:2858 minutes, 28 secondsbut they didn't necessarily qualify for what we would truly say is a, an affordability program 58:3458 minutes, 34 secondswhere income-wise, they weren't eligible for some type of benefit, you know, federal, late federal, local, state type of benefit that would be there for them. 58:4758 minutes, 47 secondsBut they've gotten behind because we didn't turn people's water off during covid because they needed to wash their hands. That led to you. 58:5458 minutes, 54 secondsBut you still need to cook, you still need to wash your hands. 58:5858 minutes, 58 secondsHow do I, how do I turn off the water at someone's home knowing that their 13-year-old daughter was gonna not be 59:0459 minutes, 4 secondsable to take a bath or cook and, and go to school the next day? 59:0959 minutes, 9 secondsAs teenagers, we all know what our bodies go through and what type of smells come from our bodies when we're teenagers. How do you allow that to happen? 59:1759 minutes, 17 secondsIt's just, it's not from a hygiene perspective, from a cooking perspective. H how do we just allow that to happen? 59:2459 minutes, 24 secondsAnd, and I really fought for coming up with a program that said, how do we take someone's bill that they're behind on, and how do we spread it out over 36 months with no interest? 59:3559 minutes, 35 secondsJust put $10 down and we'll get you onto a program that over the next 36 months we can spread out your payments. 59:4259 minutes, 42 secondsAnd, and, and there's no, it's easy, right? You don't have to have any income requirements. 59:4859 minutes, 48 secondsYou don't have to prove to us that you're, you know, we, we know that you're behind. We don't need you to approve anything to us. 59:5459 minutes, 54 secondsLet's just take your past due bill, put $10 down and we'll just spread it out and, and we'll make things easy for you. And, and that's what we came up with. 1:00:001 hourAnd we implemented it very, very rapidly. 1:00:031 hour, 3 secondsWhich again, is one of those things that, you know, I had colleagues of mine that I was working with here that were like, whoa, you know, slow your role. We gotta really think about this. 1:00:121 hour, 12 secondsAnd I'm like, there's nothing to think about. We just need to do this for the people, for, for our people. We need to do this. And, and we made, we need to make things easy for them. 1:00:201 hour, 20 secondsLet's, let's get 'em back on track. Let's not have them worry about things. 1:00:251 hour, 25 secondsLet's, let's, let's make this, you know, some people say it's really not affordable. 1:00:301 hour, 30 secondsIt's not an affordability program because you didn't give them anything. 1:00:331 hour, 33 secondsWell, I did. I gave 'em the benefit of spreading out their payments, not not having any interest. 1:00:381 hour, 38 secondsAnd I would, I would venture to say, I would challenge anybody to say, tell me any other utility in this country that's doing the same type of things that we're doing. 1:00:481 hour, 48 secondsAnd we have two different programs. 1:00:491 hour, 49 secondsWe have a lifeline program, and we have the Lifeline program, I'm sorry, pay and Lifeline. 1:00:541 hour, 54 secondsWe have two different programs for two different groups of people that puts them back on the right track and keeps their water on. 1:01:021 hour, 1 minute, 2 secondsWhich to me, that is my success. 1:01:041 hour, 1 minute, 4 secondsI found a way for you to pay your bill on a monthly basis that's affordable, that you can afford, and your water won't be turned off. 1:01:131 hour, 1 minute, 13 secondsAnd you can still keep the hygiene in your house. You can still keep clean, you can still cook. To me, those are all the important things. 1:01:201 hour, 1 minute, 20 secondsAnd I'll work with just about anybody. 1:01:221 hour, 1 minute, 22 secondsAnd the, the EasyPay program, you know, I had, you know, I was looking across the country, talking to other colleagues in other states 1:01:311 hour, 1 minute, 31 secondsand other cities that were like, you know, we've tried stuff like that. We've had a couple thousand people in it. 1:01:361 hour, 1 minute, 36 secondsWe have 10,000 people in the program after the first 60 days. It's a huge success. 1:01:411 hour, 1 minute, 41 secondsIt's been all over the media and, and I'm just, I I, at the end of the day, it's not because I did anything, it's because it's successful. 1:01:491 hour, 1 minute, 49 secondsBecause 10,000 people in our city and growing every day are able to, a thousand people, 1:01:561 hour, 1 minute, 56 secondslittle over a thousand people every single week are getting on the program. They're keeping the water on, it's affordable. They're making their payments, they're being successful. 1:02:051 hour, 2 minutes, 5 secondsSuccess. - It takes my breath away that your 1:02:121 hour, 2 minutes, 12 secondsmeasurement of success is helping others. 1:02:181 hour, 2 minutes, 18 secondsThis program has to have been so impactful for those people who couldn't pay their bills. 1:02:261 hour, 2 minutes, 26 secondsBut to your point, you brought up something that I feel like I don't hear often from people in your position. 1:02:341 hour, 2 minutes, 34 secondsThese people have pride. They want to pay their bill. They, that's what they would desire to do. 1:02:431 hour, 2 minutes, 43 secondsThey just don't have the means. 1:02:461 hour, 2 minutes, 46 secondsAnd some are choosing between eating and feeding that 13-year-old or giving her the opportunity to take a bath. 1:02:531 hour, 2 minutes, 53 secondsAnd you opening up the opportunity for them to be able to do both and still having respect for themselves 1:03:011 hour, 3 minutes, 1 secondand their, and their children to be able to benefit from that is so powerful. 1:03:051 hour, 3 minutes, 5 secondsAnd the fact that that is where you find success is helping others 1:03:121 hour, 3 minutes, 12 secondssucceed and to find pride in, in a way to move forward in, in a way that's achievable is just, it's mind blowing to me. 1:03:221 hour, 3 minutes, 22 secondsAnd, and admirable. - Thank you. - Absolutely. Yes. Well, thank, thank you. 1:03:291 hour, 3 minutes, 29 secondsBecause like I said, there's not many that I know in positions like yours that think that way. 1:03:361 hour, 3 minutes, 36 secondsI did have another guest that said something that I think aligns with you and your leadership style. 1:03:431 hour, 3 minutes, 43 secondsShe said it's, it's, it's not just hard work, it's heart work. 1:03:491 hour, 3 minutes, 49 secondsBecause she was so passionate about what it is that she was doing. She said, you know, it's hard. It is, it's a challenge. 1:03:561 hour, 3 minutes, 56 secondsThe things that she sees, the, the, the, the, the late nights, you know, it, it's a challenge, but it's worth it. It's the hard work. 1:04:041 hour, 4 minutes, 4 secondsAnd I think that that aligns too with the, the way in which you're moving. 1:04:081 hour, 4 minutes, 8 seconds- Yeah. There's, there's multiple ways that people can see things. 1:04:131 hour, 4 minutes, 13 secondsAnd I think our society in general sees things from a, from a title perspective, the, the, the job title 1:04:201 hour, 4 minutes, 20 secondsthat they have, or what people might think about what they do or what their paycheck says. 1:04:271 hour, 4 minutes, 27 secondsAt the end of the day, there is so much more to life and so much more to success than just those things. 1:04:351 hour, 4 minutes, 35 secondsAnd, and knowing that, you know, for me, you know, 10,000 households in our city are, they're, they're achieving success in their own household. 1:04:471 hour, 4 minutes, 47 secondsThat to me makes that, that's, I go home at night saying I did the right thing. Right? That that is the right thing to do. 1:04:551 hour, 4 minutes, 55 secondsAnd, and to the, the person you were, you know, you, you spoke of you, you said one word, the passion, right? 1:05:011 hour, 5 minutes, 1 secondSo what you're doing on a daily basis, you know, and, and I say that when you're looking for candidates 1:05:081 hour, 5 minutes, 8 secondsand you're looking for people to join your organization as well, look for the passion that, that those people have or what passion you think they might to your organization. 1:05:181 hour, 5 minutes, 18 secondsThat's what, that's what's uplifting, right? 1:05:211 hour, 5 minutes, 21 secondsIt's, it's, I i I, I don't know if this is, this has been said to me numerous times, but you know, it's not about giving people a handout. 1:05:301 hour, 5 minutes, 30 secondsIt's about giving people a hand up. There's a difference between the two. - Absolutely. Not about giving people a handout. 1:05:391 hour, 5 minutes, 39 secondsIt's about giving people the hand up. That may be my next quote. There you Go. That was that. That's a very good one. Oh my goodness. 1:05:481 hour, 5 minutes, 48 secondsWhat I've learned about you today is that you are a humble servant leader with a great passion for helping other people. 1:05:551 hour, 5 minutes, 55 secondsYou have an awesome family, a wife you've known since the sixth grade, which is incredible. 1:06:021 hour, 6 minutes, 2 secondsAnd she's been a, a, a driving force for you and achieving your goals. 1:06:081 hour, 6 minutes, 8 secondsAnd you've gotten your degree here at University of Phoenix, and you are on your way to your masters, and we are so excited and excited to have you back on the show once you graduate. 1:06:191 hour, 6 minutes, 19 secondsI wanna see you walk across that stage, though. - All right. All right. - Okay. It's a promise. 1:06:251 hour, 6 minutes, 25 seconds- It's a promise. I, I'm, I've, I've, I've got, I've got all the regalia to go along with it, so I have no excuse. - You know, there's a different robe for masters. 1:06:331 hour, 6 minutes, 33 seconds- Oh, really? All right, well, - I won't, I won't. 1:06:361 hour, 6 minutes, 36 secondsI'll, I'll let, I'll let you, I'll let you have the surprise. I won't tell you - The, - The new special thing, but you get a new robe for masters - Now I'm even more excited 12 months from now, should 11, it's 11 month program, right? 1:06:481 hour, 6 minutes, 48 seconds- That's right, that's right. I'm looking forward to it. I'm excited to see you walk across that stage. 1:06:531 hour, 6 minutes, 53 seconds- Thank you. - So now I have rapid fire questions for you, uhoh, and these are so much fun. 1:07:001 hour, 7 minutes- Okay. All right. I love fun - All. Yes. I don't - How much more fun could have gotten so far? - It has been so much fun. It has been a blast. 1:07:091 hour, 7 minutes, 9 secondsAnd this is your wrap up, so I'm excited about it. Okay, so first, first question, book that changed your life. 1:07:161 hour, 7 minutes, 16 seconds- Book that changed my life. Wow, that's a big one. 1:07:251 hour, 7 minutes, 25 secondsZ for Zacharia. Okay. - Early bird or Night Owl. - Oh, I am neither. So I know that's, I know that's a weird answer, right? 1:07:351 hour, 7 minutes, 35 secondsSo I believe, I believe in what your body tells you to do. 1:07:401 hour, 7 minutes, 40 secondsSo when it's time to wake up, it's time to wake up, get up with a purpose, and when your body tells you it's time to go to bed, it's time to go to bed no matter how much fun you're having. 1:07:491 hour, 7 minutes, 49 secondsSo, because I believe your body tells you what to do. So yeah, I'm, I'm kind of neither I can go either way. 1:07:561 hour, 7 minutes, 56 secondsSo sometimes I'm, I, I wake up early and when my body says it's time I'm up. 1:08:021 hour, 8 minutes, 2 secondsAnd sometimes Saturday I woke up at six o'clock in the morning ready to go. 1:08:071 hour, 8 minutes, 7 secondsAnd on Sunday, I didn't wake up till 10 in the morning. So there you go. - Listen to your body. That's a good one. I'm gonna have to add that in there. That's really good. 1:08:161 hour, 8 minutes, 16 secondsYour go-to productivity hack. - Productivity hack. You've got some questions. 1:08:221 hour, 8 minutes, 22 secondsThese are just, I thought you were gonna, like, I thought for sure, like rapid fire was gonna be like, what kind of candy bar do you like? I'm like, I just say Butterfinger. That's easy. 1:08:331 hour, 8 minutes, 33 secondsProductivity hack. 1:08:351 hour, 8 minutes, 35 seconds- I think you actually gave it away earlier you said, and correct me if I'm wrong, but when you were getting your degree, you actually used your lunchtime 1:08:441 hour, 8 minutes, 44 secondsand a little bit of your time before you went home to do the majority of your homework, so you weren't stuck on the weekends. 1:08:511 hour, 8 minutes, 51 seconds- Yeah. You know, I, I am a procrastinator, so my productivity hacks are, are few and far between. 1:08:571 hour, 8 minutes, 57 secondsBut yes, I, i that I, I will take what you just gave me is that just use every opportunity you have to, 1:09:061 hour, 9 minutes, 6 secondsand I call it sneaking in to sneak in the things that you need to do because it it, if you try 1:09:131 hour, 9 minutes, 13 secondsto do it all at once, especially as a procrastinator, that's what triggers you to say, this is just gonna take forever. 1:09:201 hour, 9 minutes, 20 secondsBut if I can do 45 minutes at a time and just come back to it, it makes it so much easier on, 1:09:281 hour, 9 minutes, 28 secondsI think the stress level that you have of what I need to accomplish. 1:09:311 hour, 9 minutes, 31 secondsIf you can just take little bites at a time, that, that's definitely, that's definitely my productivity hack is little bites at a time. 1:09:381 hour, 9 minutes, 38 secondsMake it easier. It reduces the stress level. - Absolutely. And we could use less stress. 1:09:441 hour, 9 minutes, 44 seconds- Yes. - What's the best advice you've ever received? Plan - Your work and work your plan. 1:09:511 hour, 9 minutes, 51 seconds- Plan your work, and work your plan. 1:09:531 hour, 9 minutes, 53 seconds- My dad said that to me. I don't think he's the one that came up with it. 1:09:561 hour, 9 minutes, 56 secondsI don't, but that was his, that was his motto was plan your work and work your plan. And that has always stuck with me. 1:10:031 hour, 10 minutes, 3 secondsIf you have a plan, you can work it out. 1:10:061 hour, 10 minutes, 6 seconds- Well, I've never heard it before, so we're, we're gonna go ahead and credit it to dad. - All right, good. Thank you. - What's your go-to karaoke song? 1:10:151 hour, 10 minutes, 15 seconds- Oh, I do, you do not want to hear me sing at all. And it drives my kids and my wife absolutely crazy. 1:10:231 hour, 10 minutes, 23 secondsBut the weird thing is, is I have a, a weird knack of remembering weird trivia questions, 1:10:331 hour, 10 minutes, 33 secondswhich also makes me keep in my brain lyrics to songs. 1:10:401 hour, 10 minutes, 40 secondsAnd so it doesn't matter whether, and I like all kinds of genres of music, but I can sing along out loud to all kinds of music and from all kinds of different artists. 1:10:511 hour, 10 minutes, 51 secondsAnd I know the words from all long time ago till today. But you do not want me to do any karaoke. I do not. 1:10:591 hour, 10 minutes, 59 secondsI do not sing and I do not dance, and I do not, I can, I am not musically inclined in any way, shape, or form. 1:11:091 hour, 11 minutes, 9 seconds- And then your last one is simply your personal motto. 1:11:121 hour, 11 minutes, 12 seconds- Well, my personal motto is really just plan your work and work your plan. 1:11:171 hour, 11 minutes, 17 secondsBut, you know, at, at the end of the day, my, my, my motto is just, it's, it, it's cliche as it may be. It's just no regrets. 1:11:261 hour, 11 minutes, 26 secondsLive your life with no regrets. Make decisions with no regrets. - That is, that is excellent. I completely agree. 1:11:351 hour, 11 minutes, 35 secondsAnd the floor is yours. These are your closing thoughts. 1:11:381 hour, 11 minutes, 38 secondsIf there's anything you want our audience to know, or if you have any, any other advice that you wanted to give, feel free, - Create a bucket list as, as much as I know 1:11:471 hour, 11 minutes, 47 secondsthat became a cliche statement, and I know there was a movie that was made about it, but create a bucket list. 1:11:531 hour, 11 minutes, 53 secondsWrite it down. What are the things that you want to do in your life? And, and the bucket list will change. 1:12:001 hour, 12 minutesIt will, it will migrate and you know, things will fall off and new things will get added. 1:12:061 hour, 12 minutes, 6 secondsBut definitely create a bucket list and work your way to checking things off the list. 1:12:131 hour, 12 minutes, 13 secondsAnd it doesn't always have to be, you know, oh, I wanna travel around the world, I wanna go to Europe. 1:12:181 hour, 12 minutes, 18 secondsBut I've had a bucket list of, of going back to school and giving my bachelor's degree. It was always on my list. 1:12:251 hour, 12 minutes, 25 secondsIt just may have been at the bottom of the bucket. 1:12:281 hour, 12 minutes, 28 secondsAnd so, but keep it there and, and always look at it and, and reflect on it. 1:12:331 hour, 12 minutes, 33 secondsAnd I read this once somewhere that said, always continue to write your own eulogy. 1:12:451 hour, 12 minutes, 45 secondsI know that sounds kind of sick, but what would you want? 1:12:491 hour, 12 minutes, 49 secondsWhat always work towards never give up writing your own eulogy. So what is it that you would want when it's your time to go? 1:12:571 hour, 12 minutes, 57 secondsWhat is it that you want other people to say about you? 1:13:001 hour, 13 minutesI'll leave that for everybody else to kind of decide what that, what that means to them, but - Absolutely. 1:13:051 hour, 13 minutes, 5 secondsWell, I know that you have a lot more to accomplish that you're gonna be here for a long time. 1:13:111 hour, 13 minutes, 11 secondsWhat I would say I've learned about you is that you are gonna continue to serve and change lives in your community. 1:13:191 hour, 13 minutes, 19 secondsAnd we are grateful for you. 1:13:211 hour, 13 minutes, 21 secondsWe're excited to watch you walk across that stage with your master's degree and to, to watch those two incredible daughters and your awesome wife cheer for you as you do so. 1:13:311 hour, 13 minutes, 31 seconds- Thank you, - Matthew, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your incredible journey with us. 1:13:371 hour, 13 minutes, 37 secondsThat brings us to the end of this episode of Degrees of Success. Don't forget to like and subscribe. 1:13:431 hour, 13 minutes, 43 secondsI'm your host, Frida Richards, reminding you that your next chapter might just be your best one yet. See you next time.
## Listen to the podcast episode featuring UOPX alumnus Matthew Phillips

## How a former franchise owner overcame setbacks at work and in life to become a leader in Detroit city government, featuring Matthew Phillips

1. Show Notes
2. Transcript
Show Notes
University of Phoenix UOPX alumnus Matthew Phillips is chief of staff and customer service officer for the City of Detroit’s water and sewage department. In this episode of the[Degrees of Success podcast](https://www.phoenix.edu/blog/alumni-chronicles/podcast.html), Phillips opens up about the pivotal moments that shaped his career, from missed opportunities to the life-changing experience of open-heart surgery. He also shares the challenges of running a franchise, his unexpected transition into nonprofit leadership, and his current role in city government.

Transcript
Welcome to the Degrees of Success Podcast

0:00

- Hello and welcome to the Degrees of Success podcast.

Introducing Matthew Phillips

0:15

I'm your host, Frieda Richards. And today we have an incredible guest, Matthew Phillips.

0:21

Matthew is the Chief of staff and customer service officer at Detroit Water

0:28

and Sewage Department. He's also a 2023 grad from the University

0:34

of Phoenix. Please help me welcome Matthew Phillips. - Thank you for having me. - Absolutely.

0:40

So we wanna just jump right in and learn more about you right away. So first things first, tell us about your background

Matthew’s Early Life and Background

0:46

and like the, where you grew up and how you grew up and what kind of kid you were. - Wow. I'm not sure I can tell the honest story on that one,

0:54

but, no, just kidding. No, I grew up in a suburb of, of Detroit, Michigan,

1:00

and I've lived in Michigan my entire life. You know, I I, I think I just had a regular childhood

1:08

as far as my upbringing. I was very close to my family and my cousins as far as sports go.

1:14

I played ice hockey almost all my entire life. So I kind of have that, that, and I still do that today.

1:21

And, oh, let's see. I probably the most exciting thing that I think most people are like, wow,

Meeting His Wife in Sixth Grade

1:28

that's an interesting piece, is that I actually met my wife when I was in, we were both in sixth grade, so elementary school,

1:35

we knew each other and we were just kinda, I don't know, I don't wanna say best friends, but we were just friends.

1:41

We knew each other all through junior high and high school. And our senior year in high school, we got really close

1:46

to each other and I asked her to prom. And from then on we were completely inseparable.

1:54

We ended up starting our, I guess our, you know, our university or college careers together.

2:01

We went to the same university just so we could be together. And yeah, I mean we're, I, I've been married to, to Jenny

2:10

for an awfully long time. We have two beautiful, lovely children

2:15

that are three years apart, and they both go to the same university together here in Michigan.

2:22

In fact, they're now roommates. So my oldest daughter is now starting her master's degree

2:27

and my youngest daughter is a sophomore and they live together in the same apartment. And so that's very comforting to know.

2:33

So that's probably kind of the inside track on who I am and kind of what, what, what I'm all about. For

2:42

- Sure. It sounds like you have a really great foundation, like a, a wife you've known since the sixth grade, who can say that?

2:49

That's amazing. And you have two awesome daughters, both in college and roommates.

2:56

- Yes, very. - That's - S - Incredible. What, what are your daughter's degrees gonna be in?

Family Life and His Daughters' Careers

3:01

- So my oldest daughter is going into higher education administration, so she wants

3:08

to be like an admissions counselor or recruiter of some type. She, she works for the dean of, of the English department.

3:16

So she just, she's really kind of fallen in love with that aspect. She was, she wanted to be a secondary math teacher,

3:22

but she really fell in love with like University of Life and what it's like to try to help individuals find their way.

3:30

Young adults find their way into a career and whatnot. And so she's really kind, she's kind of put her hat into

3:37

that, into that ring, I guess. And my youngest daughter wants to be in communications

3:43

and marketing, so both of them were in marching band and both of them were drum majors.

3:50

So they both led the band. They're actually the first sisters or siblings that were leading the marching band

3:59

of 150 students. So they do have a leadership, I guess, in their bones. I guess I, I always say they're kind

4:04

of following in my footsteps. So yeah, it's, it's great to kind of watch 'em, see 'em,

4:09

watch 'em grow and find their way through life and make decisions.

4:14

It's, it's very interesting and, and I've been very supportive of, of any decisions

4:20

that they've wanted to make or any changes that they've wanted to make in their, in their schooling. So it's, it's been fun.

4:27

- Oh my goodness. Your daughters sound amazing. They, it also sounds like they have a really great

4:33

mentor in you and definitely probably following dad's footsteps.

4:40

What does that look like for you as you were going through your career and your educational journey?

4:46

Who would you say influenced you the most and how? - Well, I, I would say that my influences likely came from

4:54

my father who was, you know, very, very rigid and very structured and, and, and home and family life.

Influences and Pursuing Happiness

5:00

And definitely wanted me to do whatever it was that made me happy,

5:08

but was relatively rigid in the structure that you have to have a college degree. And yeah, I'll, I'll just tell you how old I am.

5:16

I'm 52 years old and, and I think growing up in, in the eighties very much from the counselors in,

5:25

in high school was, you know, if you don't go to college and you're not on the college track, you know, you likely,

5:33

you likely won't be successful. And one of the things that really interested me in school

5:38

was probably more of the trades. So I was really excited in, you know, wood shop, metal shop photography.

5:45

I was not equipped from an artistic standpoint

5:50

of being a painter or something like that. I think that's the way most of us think about it. But definitely hands-on creative

5:56

and I really liked instant gratification. And when I, you know, when I got

6:02

to college in my first kind of stepping into that world out of high school, having instant

6:09

gratification just wasn't there. And so sitting in classes in, in the traditional type

6:14

of classroom setting, I will just say I was probably the student that was most likely looking out the window and, and,

6:22

and kind of dreaming about what else I could be doing besides sitting here. And some of the courses that you take in college are some

6:31

of the courses that for me was, where does this get me? Where will I ever use this in, in, in real life, per se?

6:38

And most of that just didn't resonate with me, and I had a very difficult time keeping my grades up.

6:44

And, and I was not the, the individual that was like, oh, I'm gonna go off and do other things. I'm not gonna study. I'm not gonna put time in.

6:52

I definitely put the time in it, just the amount of time that I was putting into it

6:57

and what I was getting out of it just wasn't there for me. And so, you know, spending the time at,

Career Choices Over Traditional Education

7:03

at university was something I just couldn't see the end result for. It just wasn't there. And I was looking

7:08

for the instant gratification. And I always tell people the, the trades were,

7:14

were probably something that I, I probably would've succeeded at a young age into because of that instant gratification

7:22

and having something that was hands on. So I was constantly looking for something that I just wasn't getting.

7:27

And so for me, starting, I guess a career became more important

7:33

to me than finishing college. And I, I don't want anybody to get the wrong impression and,

7:39

and everybody has a different path in life, and you have to find what that is and what makes sense to you.

7:45

And starting a family, you know, settling down, I guess, whatever that means, that that means a lot to different people.

7:51

But settling down, starting a family and, and having a job right away,

7:56

and then seeing kind of the fruits of that, right? Which is, I have a job, I've got a full-time job, I have,

8:02

I'm no longer on my parents, you know, medical benefits, right? I've, I've got my own medical benefits, I wanna save money,

8:07

I wanna get a house, I wanna start life. That seemed to be the most important path for me.

8:13

And that's, that's the path that I took. I mean, I really wanted to be an elementary school teacher. That was really the path that, that I wanted to go on.

8:21

And I really, because when you're in front of students, you can start to see that, but sitting in those classes

8:28

and waiting for that to happen just wasn't there for me. And because of my, my sports background

8:36

or ice hockey background, I was running ice hockey camps for kids in the local area.

8:42

That was like, I guess that was my entrepreneurial start was I can do this in the summertime and make money for college to, to go away

8:50

to university, but the, the, it was the gratification I to have, you know, 50, 60 kids in front of me

8:58

for four hours a week and watch them grow and watch them flourish. And I could nurture them and teach them something

9:05

and they could walk away and use it right away, which, wow, that was me, right? I wanted to use whatever skill I was learning at university

9:12

right away, but you can't do that. You've gotta wait four or five years to graduate and then make that happen so you can kind of see where all

9:19

of that was forming for me and why it probably didn't work for me in,

9:24

in, in the right way. That traditionally, for a lot of people it probably went, but I mean, by time, five years went by of,

9:32

I'll just say dabbling into college or university life. I mean, I'd accumulated 70 or 80 credits.

9:38

I mean, it wasn't like I wasn't doing something, it just wasn't everything that I was looking for.

9:44

So I started, I guess a real career. So I, that's probably like where your next question is gonna go is how did that progress?

Starting His Career in Customer Service

9:50

Like what did that look like? You know, where, where were you going? - Are you trying to steal my job?

9:56

- I'm not trying to steal your job - Because you're excellent that, I mean, honestly, you just,

10:02

you just knew that that where the conversation would naturally lead. Honestly, I would love to know more about your career.

10:09

What I'm hearing you say is that you are passionate about serving

10:15

and you have a great desire to be impactful in other people's lives.

10:22

And I heard you say that your daughter is looking into higher education for something similar.

10:27

So that seems to be a, a vein that runs through the family. That's excellent. So Matthew, in your 52 years,

10:37

you've had a multitude of experiences that led you to where you are now, one of which is being an entrepreneur

10:44

and running your own franchise. Tell me how that led you and shaped you in leadership.

10:50

- Yeah, so, you know, I I, I really, I got my start kind of in the, you know, I guess my career start

10:56

after going to college or university just didn't kind of pan out for me at the moment.

11:03

And so I, I got a start in customer service and, and so working in customer service was something

11:10

that really, I guess filled the vacancy that I was looking for.

11:16

And, you know, at the end of the day now, I see it as being a public servant is something that is, I guess

11:25

that runs through my veins is that I, I do get a high amount of gratification

11:31

or satisfac satisfaction out of being a public servant. And there's multiple ways that you can be a public servant

11:37

and, and customer service kind of got me into that dabble. And I mean, there was, or able to dabble into that area and,

11:44

and customer service can mean many things, but I, I really got my start in, you know, quote unquote call centers.

11:50

And it, it didn't take very long of getting into that where somebody recognized that, hey, you know, you've,

11:59

you've got some leadership, you take initiative, you're a risk taker, you know, you, you've got strong ethics

12:05

and you've got an ability to talk to people and to show emotions and be empathetic at the same time.

12:13

And while not all of those are, you know, leadership traits, but a lot of 'em, it serves you very well

12:20

to have those types of things to work in leadership. So it didn't take very long that I was working my way up in leadership positions.

12:27

Of course, it takes a little bit extra to continue to, as they say,

12:34

work your way up the ladder. It takes a little, a lot longer when you don't have a college degree

12:41

to go along with that. And so, yeah, I had to work extra hard to prove, I guess,

12:47

my worth and, and to prove that I belong in, in that area, which I will just tell you, I, I talk a lot.

12:54

So I think you guys have kind of already kind of seen that and you know, I, it's taken me a while to kind of unpack

13:00

that and say, you know, why does that happen? Why do you talk so much? And it's, it's likely because I needed to prove

13:06

that I belong, that I belonged at the same table as everybody else. And you talk, I tend to talk a lot to try to prove to people

13:14

that I do have the knowledge, I do have the skillset, I do have the ability to be there, but customer service really shaped me.

13:21

And having that ability to give back, whether that's to a customer on the other end of the phone that's looking

13:29

for, let's just face it, people don't call customer service or don't interact at a, at a customer service level

Transition to Leadership Roles

13:34

because they believe that everything is great, they have a problem, which again, hey, wow, that makes me a problem solver

13:40

and solving problems gives me a purpose and keeps me engaged and keeps me excited.

13:45

So again, that's the kind of that, that instant gratification that was always there. I could get somebody on the phone or somebody face to face

13:53

and hear what their problem is and say, I can help solve that problem for you. It's, it's, it's very challenging.

13:58

It's very engaging for me. But yeah, there was, you know, after, you know, 20 years of kind

14:04

of working in customer service, I said to myself, I can probably do this on my own

14:10

or do something that was, you know, more on my own. And I was looking to start my own business.

14:16

And one of the areas that I had never worked on was, was working in the restaurant industry.

14:22

And again, restaurant industry is something you're face to face with everybody every day.

14:27

It takes a lot of leadership, it takes a a lot of initiative. There's a lot of planning

14:33

that goes into owning a restaurant. I probably had no business owning a restaurant, never have worked, whether it was, you know, busing tables

14:42

or washing dishes or working as a waiter or, you know, front end, back end of a restaurant.

14:47

I had no experience whatsoever. Probably didn't belong in. And somewhere along the way I convinced somebody

14:54

that I wanted to be a franchisee and went to this, you know, franchisor and said, you know,

14:59

and it's not like, you know, somebody just plunks down a chunk of money and says, I wanna be a franchise franchisors, don't want

15:06

to have a franchisee that's a failure, because that's on them too, right? That's their name, that's their brand.

15:13

They're in the community serving the community in some type of capacity. They don't want that either. So there is a,

15:19

there is an interview process that you have to go through and they're, you know, in, in this case, the, the actual owner of the franchise wanted to talk

15:27

to me personally before they would even allow me to even go forward in the franchise process.

15:32

And so, you know, I met the, you know, the, the, the franchisee that was, you know, that was offering,

15:39

you know, and it's, it's not as simple as I think as people think. And I will tell you that out of all of that, that was one

15:46

of the things that really shaped me further in my career as a leader. Because, you know, when you're working for somebody else,

15:55

you know, the money comes from somebody else, or, you know, when you want to open up another location

16:00

because you're expanding the business, you're doing that on somebody else's dime, or they have to go and get a business loan.

16:06

And when you're asking, well, it doesn't seem like a lot probably to a lot of people, but when you're putting your house

16:12

and your, your own 401k your retirement plan up as collateral so that you can get a, you know, $400,000 loan

16:22

to open up a restaurant, which, oh by the way, 50% of every restaurant fails within the first 12 months.

16:29

That's a statistic that that exists. And you have to, you have to go to a bank

16:35

and say, Hey, I need a loan to go forward, and they're asking you for collateral.

16:40

I mean, my family, my wife, whatever is saying, so you're telling me if this, if 50% of every restaurant

16:46

that opens fails, and that means our house could be taken from us. I'm not sure that's a risk that,

16:53

you know, I'm willing to take. So not only was it selling the person that owns the franchise to say, Hey, I wanna be part

16:59

of your brand, but you're also convincing your family that we're gonna be successful.

17:04

I would say that we got part of it's luck. A lot of it is a lot of hard work. I could not quit my job.

17:12

That was just something that you don't realize. And I think a lot of people think, oh, you own a you own a business, you must be rich, you know,

17:19

life must be great for you. No, I didn't make any money from it.

17:24

Realistically, at the end of the day, you're paying back, you know, this isn't a, a house loan

17:30

where you're buying a half a million dollar home and you've got 30 years to pay it off. The bank wants to pay off in 10 years.

17:35

So everything that you quote unquote make as a profit is going to pay back the loans that you had

17:43

to take to do it, because most people just don't have $400,000 sitting around that they can just take

17:48

and open up a, so it's a lot of work. So I was working a full-time job as the chief operating officer of a nonprofit that was one

17:57

of the largest nonprofits here in the state of Michigan. So I, I was doing that 12 hours a day

Franchise Ownership Challenges

18:04

and then literally in the morning before, and I don't want to give away exactly what the franchise was, but you guys know it's a restaurant,

18:11

but the, you know, as they say, the donuts have to be made in the morning, and it was not a donuts, but I mean, the bread has to be baked in the morning, right?

18:18

So if, if the person that shows up at six 30 in the morning to put the dough in the oven doesn't show up, guess

18:24

who does the b the buck stops with the business owner. So I had to either, I had to make sure, so I had

18:30

to go first thing in the morning to make sure that that's happening. And at the end of the day, somebody's gotta come in,

18:35

you know, into the business and make sure that everything's getting done. So, you know, 12 hour days was, I mean, that's

18:42

what was my normal job. And now I have to either show up in the morning or, you know, in the afternoon, or at least watch cameras.

18:49

I mean, you're traveling in your normal job, you're watching cameras, you're making sure that things are happening within the business, making sure

18:55

that the orders get done. Because if, you know, if food doesn't show up and can't serve your customers,

19:00

then you're not making any money. So it's, it's a lot of work. I would just say that it's very gratifying.

19:08

And there is a lot of things that I learned about, you know, again, like I've said, how do you get a loan? How do you write a bus? I had never written a business plan

19:15

before I've been in business. I mean, I was running Fortune 500 companies,

19:21

I was running their customer service. I was opening up call centers or contact centers across the country,

19:28

including one in Montego Bay, Jamaica. So I guess you could consider that international.

19:34

So I mean, I had a lot of experience, but how do you write a business plan to a bank and prove to them that this is gonna be a profitable

19:41

business and I'm gonna be able to pay all this off in the next 10 years and be able to hire staff.

19:46

I mean, I had the staffing part of it down, but some of that other, other things, you just,

19:52

you just can't have that unless you do it. And it takes a lot of work to do it. I got really lucky that I was ready to expand

20:00

to five other locations here in Michigan. And my mentor in the restaurant business just happened to,

20:07

I was, I would meet with him every quarter and, and, and tell him what was going on and ask for advice,

20:13

and he would give me advice, and I was ready to go open up four more locations in Michigan.

20:19

And he was just like, Matt, you, if you are not going to quit your job, if that's your passion, is

20:27

what you're doing now along with this, you have to pick one. You can only do one or the other. And, you know,

20:34

and to be honest with you, he made an offer to me that I just couldn't refuse, which was six months before Covid hit.

20:41

And, and I just, I, I have to count some blessings along the way,

20:46

and I had a lot them that just said this was the right time to do it.

20:51

I sat down with my family and talked about it, and as much as I believed in where I was going with this business, and as much

20:57

as it's still successful today and, and, and, and it's absolutely fantastic. And, and, and that, that individual that,

21:05

that bought it from me, he is super successful in the franchise business. And, and he's taken it to, to a place.

21:12

And I, I'm, I'm, I'm proud of what I did. And I have zero, as they say, zero regrets in what I did,

21:18

but it was, it was likely killing me at the same time, physically and mentally.

21:25

And, and I'll share with the group as, as kind of a public service message, is that listen to your body.

21:30

I will tell everybody that, listen to your body, listen to what it's telling you. And I could feel myself being run down,

21:37

being in too many places at one time. And I literally went to my doctor at the same time that all

21:42

that was happening, that covid was happening. I said, something doesn't feel right within me, I don't know what it is.

21:48

My dad passed away at 57 years, young of a massive heart attack,

21:55

and I just felt something was in me. And I will just tell you, listen to that. The short story of it is, is that in October of 2020,

Health Journey and Open-Heart Surgery

22:04

in the height of the Covid pandemic, my body really told me something.

22:09

I went to my doctor, he listened to me and said, I'm gonna send you to a cardiologist. I had no other symptoms other than what I felt was in me.

22:18

And some people say heart related issues, you get the stabbing in your back, the pain in your left arm, shortness of breath.

22:24

I had none of that. I was still playing hot ice hockey twice a week. I didn't have any of those symptoms. I went to a cardiologist

22:30

and he said, I don't see anything either, but you have great insurance, so let's check into what's going on inside of you.

22:37

And ended up finding out I needed open heart surgery. And so October 8th, so I just had my four year anniversary,

22:44

October 8th, they went in and took a look and said, you have three blockages. One of them was 95% blocked.

22:50

I probably would've ended up like my father with zero symptoms and just walking down the street and dropping dead.

22:56

I hate to say it so bluntly, but that was it. So I had open heart surgery, I had a triple bypass,

23:01

but safe to, so today I can say, in fact, I just had my, my annual physical and cardiologist appointment this morning.

23:08

And so I've got a clean bill of health and all my, all my results are are down to

23:14

where they're supposed to be. And I still play hockey twice a week. So I I I, I'm, I'm good.

23:19

But please, my, my public service message is, is it's to listen to what you're, to what's happening.

23:25

But sorry, I'll get us back on track. Is that, - No, I think that that was excellent.

23:30

That actually is the very next track. You were starting your own franchise,

23:38

or excuse me, having, having a franchise that you were growing

23:43

and then you also were, you still had a full-time job at the exact same time, meanwhile still doing hockey,

23:50

still being a family man and still getting your associate's degree, right? - Yes. So that actually, that's a great segue.

23:58

So, you know, I had sold my franchise. I was working, I was five years

24:04

as a chief operating officer at one of the largest nonprofits that was serving the public, helping low income families in the state of Michigan

24:13

with their heating and electric bills in your neighborhood. It's probably cooling,

24:18

but there, there's a, there's a large federal program that that helps low income families. And, and again, I was getting a lot of satisfaction out of

24:26

that, and it just, all at the same time that that was happening, I was headhunted

24:32

for the first time in my life, I was headhunted. Somebody came to me

24:38

and said, we have an opportunity that sounds like it fits you. And, and I'm gonna tell this story

24:44

because at the end of that first couple of interviews, I got a call from the recruiter,

24:53

which is a story that I had heard so many times over 25, 30 years, was,

25:00

wow, Matt, they really like you. Or Matt, we looked at your resume, man, that's impressive,

25:07

but you don't have a bachelor's degree. And it was just that sinking feeling

25:15

that I had received several times over. That was, you know, in my jobs, in my roles that I had,

25:22

I was progressing. But again, like I said before, I had to prove myself. I had to constantly work harder than

25:28

everybody else to prove it. But if I, I knew that I just couldn't go out and apply for any job that was out there,

25:36

because when they would look at my resume, I probably didn't get the phone calls that some other people would get.

25:42

Or again, I'd go through the, get through the door, get to the interview, and then Matt, you don't have

25:48

that bachelor's degree. And this was one of those cases where I was headhunted, I was super excited, I knew what the job opportunity was

25:56

and I knew who it was with, which is where I'm at today. And the recruiter called me and said, Matt, we're at a, we're at a,

26:03

we're at a standstill because it requires you to have a bachelor's degree. I'm sorry, I didn't catch that.

26:09

I just assumed with your background and your resume that it was there.

26:15

And I was sitting in my car in a parking structure just thinking to myself,

26:21

here we go again. Right? And luckily enough, 48 hours later, I got a phone call.

26:28

I said, Matt, they're gonna move forward with a final interview. You're gonna meet with the director who is the CEO

26:36

and, and the COO. You're gonna meet with those two individuals. They've agreed to meet with you because of your resume.

26:44

And, and again, I I, I was going into it still thinking to myself, kind of the wah you know,

26:50

this will probably be just another, another one of these times I got lucky.

26:55

I got really lucky that the, the individual, the, the, the director, the see and anywhere else and,

Pursuing Higher Education Later in Life

27:02

and city government, it's the director of the department, but anywhere else it would be the CEO of the water department actually knew me

27:09

through somebody else and said, I know you, I, now I know faced with a name

27:15

and at, at the end of the process, I got the job. And so, and that leads me to kind of where you were going

27:23

with this was within my first 60 days on the job.

27:29

And, and I'm gonna tell you his name, his name is Gary Brown. And he sat down with me and, and he said, you know, Matt,

27:36

and at first I'm like, I'm only here for a couple months. And oh my God, now the, the big guy wants to talk to me like I did I do something wrong?

27:42

Of course, that's always, you know, everybody's kind of first thought, right? Going to the principal's office. And Gary sat down with me

27:48

and he told me kind of his, his story, which really resonated. He said, Matt, you know, I, I graduated from high school

27:55

and I became a bagger at a, at a, at a grocery store. And was kind of like, well, where am I gonna go from here?

28:03

And I joined the military. He went to Vietnam, had a good, you know, good and moved his kind of way up a little bit in the military,

28:10

came back and took that background to become a police officer. And he really wanted to get into some

28:17

of the other specialized areas, you know, whether that's, you know, internal affairs or the narcotics, narcotics department, that type of thing.

28:24

And he was told along the way, Hey, look, you've got a great career going for you, but in order to get into these other areas, you have

28:31

to have, you know, an extended, you know, education, you have to have a bachelor's degree, whatever.

28:37

And he was like, I'm just not sure that's me. And he fought through it, did all those things. He became the deputy chief of the city of Detroit.

28:44

So I mean this, there's a guy and ended up becoming president of city council with the city of Detroit.

28:49

So thi this, Gary was from a military background to, you know, law enforcement to becoming, you know,

28:58

a government public servant, right? And he said, Matt, I trust that you will deliver everything

29:05

that I've, that I need you to deliver in your position. And here comes the, but, but if you wanna,

29:11

where I see you going and where I think you can go, I'm sorry to tell you,

29:17

but same thing somebody told me, if you wanna go continue up

29:22

through the leadership ranks and continue on with this career with the city,

29:27

you're gonna have to have a bachelor's degree. And so that's when I started, I said, okay,

29:34

what do I need to do? Where do I need to start? And again, kind of that, you know, you make the phone calls

29:39

and you know, I around and it was like, oh, you gotta start over, and you're how old again?

29:45

And you know, oh, we can't accept those credits here. And yeah, your credits are, you know, 25, 30 years old that can't happen.

29:53

And so my first step was getting my, getting my associate's degree, and I went back to my, you know, my,

29:59

where I had the most amount of credits. And I went, asked that university, Hey, can I come back to school? They said, Hey, you only need two more classes

30:06

and you can get a, an associate's degree in, in pre-teaching elementary.

30:11

And I was like, Hey, two classes, I can do that. So I got done with those two classes, but I gotta tell you, those two classes were really hard.

30:19

They were 15 weeks long a piece, and it was kind of a traditional classroom setting.

30:25

And I was having deja vu of, oh my God, I don't, this is really, really hard for me to do.

30:33

And it was on their time, not my time. So again, I'm trying to balance my career in school,

30:42

and when that was done, I got my associate's degree, I was on a high, I will tell you, I was like, I did it. I got, I got the piece of paper,

30:48

I have my associate's degree, but that's, that's not what I need to have done.

30:53

And I called around there, the, the city of Detroit has numerous partnerships with multiple universities and where you can go,

Finding Flexibility with Online Learning

31:01

and I will, and this is, you know, I know this will sound like my endorsement of University

31:07

of Phoenix, but the recruiter that I talked to was so engaging

31:12

and so exciting, it probably, it matched my energy. And I got excited, I got really excited by it.

31:19

And, you know, her words were, when I was, you know, that first conversation was, Matt,

31:25

let me do the work for you. Let me give me the permission to look at all of you.

31:31

And I had two community colleges, two community colleges,

31:37

and two universities that all my credits were coming from. So that's four that this individual had to look up from 1990, okay.

31:46

For probably 10 years worth of credits where I dabbled in going back to school at some point in time, had to do all that work.

31:53

And I got a call back within a day or two and said, Matt, I've got some great news. We can transfer almost every single credit you've ever

32:01

taken, and your journey is not gonna be another four years.

32:06

It's not even gonna be another two years. And oh, by the way, you can do this all on your time,

32:12

and the classes are less than two months long. And I will, and she, and I think the thing that really got me was that news, I,

32:20

she probably told me another 10, 15 minutes worth of stuff. And I was, I have no idea what she said because I was just like, what,

32:26

I can do this in less than two years and the classes are short and I can do it on my time, whether that's my lunch hour

32:34

after work on weekends, whatever it has. And I'll let you know the secret, if you can sneak in getting your homework done

32:42

and doing the study classes and you know, studying and replying and all the things that are required,

32:48

if you can do that on your lunch hour and stay an extra hour or two after work every day while you're already in your

32:55

groove, you're already sitting at your computer, everything is set up that, at least for me,

33:00

that was my secret. And I can eat my lunch and I can read,

33:06

and the, the thing with University of Phoenix was, is that there's even an option when you can, you can hit a button and it will read the chapters for you.

33:15

So I could eat my lunch and listen to what was going on. And to me, it was ex it was just, it

33:22

provided that path to say, I don't have to set aside all this time, I can do it while I'm doing other work.

33:28

It was, it was almost, I hate to say it was like a game, but it was like a game. It was like, I can listen, eat my lunch,

33:35

and still stay at work and I don't have to do this on Saturdays and Sundays. I, and I knew my deadlines

33:41

and the recruiter put together the plan for me to say, you know, from January through February 15th, this is

33:47

what you're gonna do, and then starting on this date, this is your next class. And then I got the phone calls and,

33:53

and I will tell you, I took this learning, and this is what we do today, is that every time I got done

33:58

with the class, I got a text message, Matt, you did it. And there was this confetti that fell from the screen.

Key Lessons and Reflections on Education

34:03

And, and, and I take that now when my customers make a payment

34:09

and say, I paid, we do a text message that gives fireworks or something else, or just, Hey, congratulations,

34:16

you did it to me. That was like instant gratification to say, I did it. I, this is an accomplishment for me.

34:22

So I've taken some of these learning experiences that I got from University of Phoenix and, and applied this.

34:29

And I will tell you that I think, look, I I, I do have the experience. I'm not bragging, it's not that I'm special

34:35

or anything else, but I have a lot of experience. So I could provide a lot of experiences to other

34:42

and to my classmates in class and say, Hey, these are the things I literally experienced today.

34:50

And I got to share that with them. And of course, there was individuals, my class, there was my, some of my classmates were much younger than I

34:58

am that didn't have some of the experiences, but had experiences from their level

35:04

and experiences from what they're facing day to day, which, oh, by the way, are some of my customers, those are, some

35:10

of my employees are that I'm hiring, that I'm trying to recruit.

35:16

It gave me a different perspective that I know I would've never had in a classroom setting,

35:22

because in a classroom setting, it's, you come in, you sit down, you do what you gotta do,

35:27

you take your three hour lecture, God forbid, right? Take my three hour lecture and I'm up and I'm out the door because now it's nine.

35:33

And this is what I, this is where I was at, it was, my classes in the classroom were for some six to nine at night.

35:39

So at nine o'clock I wanna get home, I wanna see my kids, I wanna say hi to them, I wanna see my wife, I want

35:44

to eat dinner and then, you know, go to bed, right? And so the University of Phoenix takes that

35:50

to a completely different level where not only am I doing this on my time, so I do get to see my kids.

35:56

I get to go to their, you know, marching band events, the football games where, where they're doing their marching

36:01

on the field, that's their thing. I get to do all that because that stuff happens after work.

36:07

I don't have to be in a classroom from six to nine a night. And even my wife, my wife went back to school just

36:13

before I did because her employer was the same way. Hey, you're a contractor with a major automotive manufacturer,

36:20

you can pick one of the three. And they told her the same thing, you, we cannot hire you on full-time

36:27

until you get your bachelor's degree. So she went to, she went back to school, but the university that she picked, which

36:34

did not have had traditional type of classroom settings, so on Saturdays and Sundays, once a month, she had to drive to another city

36:43

that was almost two hours away and stay at a hotel and, and sit all day in a classroom to get the time in.

36:51

And she missed the events that our children went to that I got to do because she had to do that.

36:59

And University of Phoenix 100% allowed me to still have time with my family still, I will tell you

37:07

that my boss and my boss's boss had no idea that I was doing this.

37:14

Although I, I mean, as far as taking classes, you know, and, and they knew I was taking classes

37:19

and they knew I was getting my bachelor's degree because they were completely supportive of it, but they didn't know that I was doing it on my lunch hour.

37:25

They didn't know that I was doing it right after work. They just assumed it was a traditional classroom where, you know, after work I had to get somewhere to, you know,

37:33

have a classroom setting. So it, it was, it, I was the University of Phoenix.

37:39

Just the, the opportunity for working adults is absolutely fantastic.

37:45

And now that I see my kids, it's interesting how the univer,

37:51

the traditional university setting has started to pick up, I think on the learnings that University

37:57

of Phoenix has been doing for years. And, and so they now have, they call it flex learning.

38:04

I, I think they come up with some new names for it. But, you know, I, it was kind of like, wait a minute, you're at school, you're away from school in a dorm setting

38:11

and you only have to, you're, you have three classes, you know, your what your one class meets three times a week,

38:18

but only one of those classes in person. The rest of it is online and it's when you want to do it.

38:24

I thought it was very interesting that, wow, this is, this has already been going on from a university that's,

38:31

I guess probably perfected it. - Absolutely, absolutely.

38:36

I'm a little biased, but I'd have to agree. - I'm sure you're, I'm too,

38:42

- I do know as you speak about your boss and your boss's boss, that they were instru instrumental

38:47

to you going back to school and believing in you saying, you know, I, I know

38:53

that you're young and I can see that you're a leader. You have all of this incredible experience, but there's this one thing that we need for you to qualify.

39:01

Tell us the story about when you got the email with the confetti that your degree had been confirmed.

39:11

- Yeah. You know, that's it, it, it, it was one of those, I think I, I call 'em twinky dink moments,

39:20

but yeah, I, I, I received the email that said everything's gone. You know, everything's been, I think they call it the

39:25

audit process. So the audit process is complete. All your classes are there, you know, you, you,

39:32

you officially have done it. Of course, that excitement was, was fantastic. I literally, as soon as the, the ability to print

39:39

that letter, that email or what, however it comes through, as soon as it came through, I took it right to my boss.

39:45

I took it right to Deb and I, and I said, Deb, I said, I did it. And, and I mean, the tears that came out of her eyes,

39:52

she gave me a huge hug. That was the moment that I knew like this hard work

39:59

that I had put into it had paid off. And, and that, you know, we knew you could do

40:05

it, that type of thing. And I should add that along the way, you know, of the journey at University of Phoenix, it was interesting

40:12

to hear the feedback that I was getting to say, Matt, you seem way more confident.

40:18

You know, you, you, you are taking more risks than, than you took before. You are leading in a different way, the confidence

40:27

that you have and how you present yourself. And at the moment, I was hearing those things going,

40:32

all right, that's pretty good. You know? And now that I look back on it, it was because not only going back to school

40:40

and knowing what I was going to accomplish was there, but it was also, I was learning things

40:45

that I hadn't been exposed to before through my coursework

40:50

that was giving me that confidence. But back to your, back to your original question, I I, i,

40:57

it always takes me a while to get there. Is that, so I just had that, it, it only been a few days,

41:03

and I had recently been promoted, not Gary, Gary had not asked me that, my, my boss's boss, right?

41:10

That's, that's Gary. He reports directly to the mayor. He's the big guy. And,

41:16

and he was the one that really sent me on this journey and gave me that story that I just told you. And he had just recently, within the past few months,

41:24

had promoted me to chief of staff. This is a position that did not exist within the water department, and it was something new.

41:31

And I think we can all put together what a chief of staff is. And in fact, I was kind of, he, he told me that in front

41:37

of a bunch of, in front of the executive team, because there's 11, 12 other people in this room. And he says, I just wanna let everybody know

41:44

that I've made Matt, my chief of staff. And I was kind of like, like me,

41:49

like you didn't even have this conversation with me. And, and I said to him afterwards, I said, what's going on?

41:55

And he was like, I believe in you 100% less than a month later, I have confirmation

42:02

that I've had this degree. Gary comes in to talk to me, I don't even know what it was. He comes in my office

42:08

and, you know, I just gotten these hugs and, and everything from Deb and I just hadn't had a chance to, to tell Gary yet.

42:14

And I don't, again, I don't even know what he was coming in for. I'm, I know it wasn't this. And I said, Gary, hang on a second.

42:21

I have to share this with you. And I, I had the, I must have had four or five copies, not gonna lie to you of it,

42:26

so I could show people, but I said, Gary, I did it on and on July 31st, I will get the official degree,

42:35

but I have officially graduated and I've completed all my coursework, and now I have a bachelor's degree in business management.

42:43

And he literally stopped in his tracks. He hadn't even sat down, he was still standing there.

42:49

And the, and he's, I mean, he's not a very emotional guy,

42:55

but he is a very sensitive guy. But the look on his face, I've never seen him embrace anybody,

43:00

but he, he, I was like, ready to shake his hand and he put his arms out and I was like, he gave me the pat

43:07

and he said, I'm so proud of you brother, you know, and, and I was like, oh my God. Like, those types of terms from this guy just was not

43:14

what I expected. And, and he was like, he said, he's like, I'm so proud of you.

43:20

I, I just am. And he said, this could not come at a better moment.

43:26

And he just kind of like stopped and stared at me for a few minutes and he turned around and wa and, and walked out.

43:31

He never told me what it was he was coming in for. I do know, you know, through the background

43:38

that I think there was some, some people that were like, how did this guy get chief of staff role?

43:43

How did this guy move up in this organization? We know he doesn't have a degree, you know, blah, blah, blah.

43:49

I, I, I'm sure those people were out there and, and maybe rightfully so, but I think Gary now had, in his heart, he was saying,

43:58

I made the right decision, you know, and, and it's not you, you know, look, it's not easy.

44:04

It's not easy to have a career. It's not easy to be working the hours that that, that we all work regardless of what position you're in.

44:10

You have a full-time job and a family. It, it, it's a lot of work. And then you add going back to school

44:18

and taking these courses and, and having to be diligent about what you do. It's not easy to do.

44:24

It's not easy to juggle all those things at a time. And I'm sure Gary recognized that he had gone through it himself

44:30

and to know that, you know, in his heart, he knew he made the right decision. I'm, I'm glad that he did.

44:37

And so, you know, I think this kind of solidified what he had done and,

44:42

and gave him the everybody you can all just kinda, you know, you can all go away now because the guy did what he was supposed to do

44:49

and what I asked him to do, and he did it, and he did it with flying colors. And look, I'm, I'm not a genius by any means, and,

44:57

and I struggle with everything that I do, but I put my heart and soul into it and, you know, I got,

45:03

I got great grades at University of Phoenix stuff that I just totally did not expect to have

45:10

all the extra things that come along with that and, and the accolades that you get. And it was, it was a, a super gratifying experience.

45:19

I hopefully you can see that in my facial expressions. I, it, it, I am proud of myself.

45:25

I, I, I did, I put in the work and you know, I I, I can see it. I, I can see the payoff, the benefit is 100% there.

45:33

I have zero regrets about, about doing it. There's other things in my life I do have regrets about,

45:39

but this is one that stands out 100% of one of the best things that I've, I've done in my life. So,

45:45

- Well, it's so incredible that we had the opportunity to be a part of this, this part of your journey

45:55

to be able to help you have more confidence

46:01

and what it is that you were already excellent at. You've already been an excellent service leader.

46:06

You've already had a, a substantial amount of experience in business going from nonprofit

46:15

to, to owning your own business and now being able to utilize those same experiences

46:23

and to do so with a degree. How pivotal has it been

46:28

to have such a great support system? You have your incredible family, you have bosses

46:35

who don't just believe in you, but they literally push you and put you in and give you a position you didn't know about

46:43

and announce in a meeting with, with you finding out at the exact same time, right?

46:50

And then just to, to see him come alongside you and just be so happy for you

46:56

and accomplishing that goal. What that type of leadership, do you think that receiving

47:04

and experiencing that type of leadership, does that affect how you actually lead as well?

47:11

- Oh, I would say a hundred percent because it gives you, it gives you that perspective

47:18

that I, I mean that's, not everybody's gonna go through the same experience, right? But it now, so I have,

47:28

I'll give you two real life, and that's probably the best way to do it, is that I've,

47:33

I had two other individuals that I had worked with,

47:39

I would say at least 12 or 13 years that I had mentored them. I had brought them up along the way that didn't,

47:46

they did not have degrees either. And so when I started this journey and, and we don't work at the same places anymore.

47:52

We work together for 10 to 12 years together, but we don't, we no longer work together, but we stay in contact and,

47:59

and I knew they still did not have their degrees. And when I started with University of Phoenix, I actually,

48:05

and you know, we try to catch up with each other every three or four months just to see what's going on. And these two colleagues, I actually said,

48:12

Hey, guess what I'm doing? And they were like, what? Like, you know, I didn't think that was you.

48:17

And I was like, well, I, I didn't think it was either, but you know, I have to do this. And oh, by the way, I'm actually having

48:23

a little bit of fun with it. Don't tell anybody, but I'm having fun. And both of those individuals, they both now go

48:31

to University of Phoenix based on my, I guess my experience with university

48:37

before I even finished and got my degree. So this was just something I was sharing with them along the way.

48:43

And there's another individual that I work with today that I know does not have a degree,

48:49

that does have a pretty high level position. And one of the things that I took from that experience

48:57

with, with my leadership staff and how they encourage me was I'm going to encourage her.

49:03

And I know that it was something that she had on her list and things, you know, that she wanted to do.

49:10

It just, and, and I, I've now given her the encouragement to say, you can do this

49:16

and I will support you along the way. Tell me what you need. You know, how can I be accommodating to your journey

49:23

and let me know if there's something that I can do. And, and you mentioned another thing too, which is,

49:28

you know, your family, you can also lean on your family. I will say that, you know, my my oldest daughter when I was starting my journey,

49:35

had just graduated from high school. She was starting, you know,

49:40

her higher education journey. My youngest daughter was just starting high school

49:47

and I leaned a lot on them. I look, I, I'm not, I, I struggle with math.

49:52

It, it's, it's difficult for me because I'm trying to figure out, you know, how

49:57

to integers and everything else. How does that, how to, where am I gonna use that in my job? That's, I, I don't use that, so it doesn't make sense to me.

50:05

And so I had a difficult time relating to it. I, I leaned on my family,

50:11

I leaned on both my daughters to say, help me out with this, help me understand these concepts

50:18

because I, I'm, I'm struggling with it. And so there are things, it's not just support

50:23

that you can rely on your family with, but there's other things that, you know, you, you don't know, maybe your spouse or significant other,

50:30

or your children have some experiences that they can help you at least give you a little bit of guidance or even just, you know, Hey dad,

50:37

we know you can do it. It's, it, it was interesting. And when I graduated from University of Phoenix,

50:46

you know, I was like, okay, I did it. And, and, and my, my, both my daughters and my wife were like, well, do you get to walk?

50:52

Do you get to do? And I'm like, I don't think that they do that. I don't think that that happens. I did find out that they act, there actually is a ceremony that happens,

51:00

but it's in, it's in California, I think was the one that was happening in 2023.

51:06

And I was like, well, I can't, I just, you know, I can't fly to California just for this, and I would want my family to be there too.

51:13

It just probably wasn't in the cards. But I did find out that you can order a cap and gown and you can get cords and you can do all those things.

51:21

And my kids were like, dad, you gotta do it. You got, and I was like, I don't know if that's,

51:28

you know, is that cheesy? I don't know. So I ordered my cap and gown. It's not that expensive.

51:33

I got the cords to go along with, you know, my GPA and you know, and so anyways, I, I got all that.

51:41

They had me put it all on and they took pictures of me outside with it on.

51:46

So it was, that part of it was, was kind of neat. So you can make it part of your family

51:52

and your family will celebrate your successes with you and you should celebrate those successes. That's a, it is an achievement.

51:59

And there's, you know, it gives you a lot of confidence that you never thought of.

52:05

And you know, now when people ask me, I don't, I don't beat around the bush, you know, when, when you're talking

52:10

to other colleagues. In fact, I had my first opportunity, not that long ago, I was, I was invited to go to San Diego to, they paid for me

52:19

to fly out there to a waterworks organization that supports affordability

52:28

and water conservation, which are two things that are near and dear to my heart that I, that I do here in Detroit.

52:34

And they invited me out there to be a keynote speaker. And so I'm like, me like, wow.

52:42

So I got to go, they threw me out there and I got to do that. And it was one of the things when I was meeting with the moderator

52:48

and some other folks that, that were leading this, this, this conference was, so Matt tell us, you know, where'd you go to school?

52:54

Where'd you graduate from? And I was like, I graduated from University of Phoenix and it just rolled right off my tongue.

52:59

And, and they said, wow, how long ago was that? And I was like, well, it was about 12 months ago. And so they were like kind of looking at me like, if,

53:07

if I had hair it would be gray. But they were like, wow. Like just a year ago. And I was like, yep. As a matter

53:13

of fact, it was just a year ago. And so proud of what I accomplished. So at the first of the year,

53:19

I'll be starting my master's program with University of Phoenix. - Congratulations. Thank you. That's excellent.

53:24

Was just going to tell you, you know, you can still walk. I believe we have one here in Arizona coming up fairly soon.

53:32

So if you still want it to walk, I'm confident we'd be able to work that out for you. So talk to the family, see if

53:37

that's something that you wanna do. But how exciting your master's degree is. It also gonna be in business?

53:43

- It is. Makes sense. - Well, early congratulations. It completely does. It completely does. Tell me more about the affordable

53:52

program that you created. - Yeah, so one of the things I'm really passionate about is,

53:59

is is helping low income families be successful?

54:05

And it's, it's difficult to do on a low income and, and you have a lot of competing priorities, whether

54:14

that's medical issues, keeping food on the table,

54:20

to, to, you know, helping your kids, you know, with their homework. You know, there, there's, there's all kinds

54:25

of resource issues that happen with homes. And I have a real big, you know, passion about it.

54:30

And it's, it's something that's near and dear to my heart. And, you know, I've worked in a lot of different areas

54:37

around affordability issues in the, in the heating and cooling space. We sometimes we call that gas, you know, natural gas

54:44

and electricity and that type of thing. And, and being with the water department, that's just it. It's something that, you know, the basis of it is, is

54:52

that you cannot live more than your organs start to shut down in your body after three days of having no water.

54:59

That's, you can ask the World Health Organization, you can look it up anywhere you want. And, and most people will, most humans,

55:07

after five days of no water will, will die. That's just the way it is.

55:12

I mean, you can live days, weeks without food. Most of us can somehow find a way to,

55:22

you know, not have electricity in their house for weeks at a time. And in fact, that that, that was one of the kind

55:29

of catalysts was, you know, I was, I was sitting watching, you know, your typical, you know, shows

55:37

that they have on TV about homesteading and that type of thing where, you know, what's the first thing that they do? They, I, I gotta, I gotta find water, find a source

55:44

of water, and I gotta find shelter. Those are the two things. And so they make TV shows out of this stuff, right?

55:51

And I'm watching this going, how is it that we can allow a family

55:58

to go without water and, and what can we do? And they have these competing priorities within their home.

56:04

And one of the things, you know, I, I was trying to figure out was, you know, how do we make, you know,

56:11

how do we make water affordable? What other things are out there when I say things, what type of resources are available?

56:18

Whether that's, you know, at a state level, a, a local level, a, a federal that can,

56:24

that we can couple, right? And, and how do we, how can we take some of these financial resources together

56:30

and still make things dignified within the home? People want to pay their bills.

56:37

People want to contribute to the success of their household, and people have pride

56:44

and people will go without so that they can keep pride in other things at the forefront.

56:51

And so one of the things we looked at is what would be affordable? And, you know, what, what, what are the percentages

56:57

that people could afford to pay within, within a household? And we found that if you live at

57:03

or below the poverty level, paying $18 a month towards your water bill is affordable.

57:08

So we had to figure out how do you, how do, how do we supplement the rest of the bill, right?

57:14

If, so, if the typical water bill is, you know, 80, I'm making up numbers, but $80 a month and you can afford to pay $20 a month, how, how can we,

57:22

how can we find ways to supplement through, through other means?

57:28

So once we accomplished that, that it was, now, how do we take other people that don't have this line

57:35

that they can draw with their paycheck to say, I'm living below poverty level, I need assistance.

57:42

How do we take the rest of us? And I say us because there's the rest of us in the world that have the same competing priorities,

57:50

but are now juggling. It's, it's, it's a matter of, well, I can pay my water bill, but I can't afford to pay my,

57:57

my electric bill right now today. So how do we find different ways? And, and I, and,

58:03

and I was like, literally, how do we make things easy? And somebody else, one of my colleagues said to me, well,

58:10

how do we make it easy to pay? And so we, we kind of put that together and we came up with easy pay.

58:16

How do we, how do we take? And, and we had all of, we had, we had a large percentage

58:23

of our customers within the city that were behind in their water bill, but they didn't necessarily qualify for

58:31

what we would truly say is a, an affordability program where income-wise, they weren't eligible for some type

58:38

of benefit, you know, federal, late federal, local,

58:43

state type of benefit that would be there for them. But they've gotten behind because we didn't turn people's

58:49

water off during covid because they needed to wash their hands. That led to you. But you still need to cook, you still need

58:57

to wash your hands. How do I, how do I turn off the water at someone's home knowing that their 13-year-old daughter was gonna not be

59:04

able to take a bath or cook and, and go to school the next day?

59:09

As teenagers, we all know what our bodies go through and what type of smells come from our bodies when we're teenagers.

59:16

How do you allow that to happen? It's just, it's not from a hygiene perspective, from a cooking perspective.

59:22

H how do we just allow that to happen? And, and I really fought for coming up with a program

59:27

that said, how do we take someone's bill that they're behind on, and how do we spread it out over 36 months

59:33

with no interest? Just put $10 down and we'll get you onto a program

59:39

that over the next 36 months we can spread out your payments. And, and, and there's no, it's easy, right?

59:45

You don't have to have any income requirements. You don't have to prove to us that you're, you know, we,

59:51

we know that you're behind. We don't need you to approve anything to us. Let's just take your past due bill, put $10 down

59:56

and we'll just spread it out and, and we'll make things easy for you. And, and that's what we came up with. And we implemented it very, very rapidly.

1:00:03

Which again, is one of those things that, you know, I had colleagues of mine that I was working with here that were like, whoa, you know, slow your role.

1:00:10

We gotta really think about this. And I'm like, there's nothing to think about. We just need to do this for the people, for, for our people.

1:00:16

We need to do this. And, and we made, we need to make things easy for them. Let's, let's get 'em back on track.

1:00:22

Let's not have them worry about things. Let's, let's, let's make this, you know,

1:00:28

some people say it's really not affordable. It's not an affordability program because you didn't give them anything.

1:00:33

Well, I did. I gave 'em the benefit of spreading out their payments, not not having any interest. And I would, I would venture to say,

1:00:41

I would challenge anybody to say, tell me any other utility in this country that's doing the same type of things that we're doing.

1:00:48

And we have two different programs. We have a lifeline program, and we have the Lifeline program, I'm sorry, pay and Lifeline.

1:00:54

We have two different programs for two different groups of people that puts them back on the right track

1:01:00

and keeps their water on. Which to me, that is my success. I found a way for you to pay your bill on a monthly basis

1:01:07

that's affordable, that you can afford, and your water won't be turned off.

1:01:13

And you can still keep the hygiene in your house. You can still keep clean, you can still cook.

1:01:19

To me, those are all the important things. And I'll work with just about anybody. And the, the EasyPay program, you know,

1:01:27

I had, you know, I was looking across the country, talking to other colleagues in other states and other cities that were like, you know,

1:01:33

we've tried stuff like that. We've had a couple thousand people in it. We have 10,000 people in the program after the first 60 days.

1:01:39

It's a huge success. It's been all over the media and, and I'm just, I I, at the end of the day, it's not

1:01:46

because I did anything, it's because it's successful. Because 10,000 people in our city

1:01:52

and growing every day are able to, a thousand people, little over a thousand people every single week

1:01:58

are getting on the program. They're keeping the water on, it's affordable. They're making their payments, they're being successful.

1:02:05

Success. - It takes my breath away that your

1:02:12

measurement of success is helping others.

1:02:18

This program has to have been so impactful for those people who couldn't pay their bills.

1:02:26

But to your point, you brought up something that I feel like I don't hear often

1:02:31

from people in your position. These people have pride. They want to pay their bill.

1:02:40

They, that's what they would desire to do. They just don't have the means.

1:02:46

And some are choosing between eating and feeding that 13-year-old or giving her the opportunity to take a bath.

1:02:53

And you opening up the opportunity for them to be able to do both and still having respect for themselves

1:03:01

and their, and their children to be able to benefit from that is so powerful. And the fact that that is

1:03:08

where you find success is helping others succeed and to find pride in, in a way

1:03:16

to move forward in, in a way that's achievable is just, it's mind blowing to me.

1:03:22

And, and admirable. - Thank you. - Absolutely. Yes. Well, thank, thank you.

1:03:29

Because like I said, there's not many that I know in positions like yours that think that way.

1:03:36

I did have another guest that said something that I think aligns with you and your leadership style.

1:03:43

She said it's, it's, it's not just hard work, it's heart work.

1:03:49

Because she was so passionate about what it is that she was doing. She said, you know, it's hard. It is, it's a challenge.

1:03:56

The things that she sees, the, the, the, the, the late nights, you know, it, it's a challenge,

1:04:02

but it's worth it. It's the hard work. And I think that that aligns too with the, the way in which you're moving.

1:04:08

- Yeah. There's, there's multiple ways that people can see things. And I think our society in general sees things from a,

1:04:17

from a title perspective, the, the, the job title that they have, or what people might think about

1:04:24

what they do or what their paycheck says. At the end of the day, there is so much more to life

1:04:30

and so much more to success than just those things. And, and knowing that, you know, for me, you know, 10,000

1:04:39

households in our city are, they're, they're achieving success in their own household.

1:04:47

That to me makes that, that's, I go home at night saying I did the right thing. Right? That that is the right thing to do.

1:04:55

And, and to the, the person you were, you know, you, you spoke of you, you said one word, the passion, right?

1:05:01

So what you're doing on a daily basis, you know, and, and I say that when you're looking for candidates

1:05:08

and you're looking for people to join your organization as well, look for the passion that, that those people have

1:05:15

or what passion you think they might to your organization. That's what, that's what's uplifting, right?

1:05:21

It's, it's, I i I, I don't know if this is, this has been said to me numerous times, but you know, it's not about giving people a handout.

1:05:30

It's about giving people a hand up. There's a difference between the two.

1:05:35

- Absolutely. Not about giving people a handout. It's about giving people the hand up.

1:05:41

That may be my next quote. There you Go. That was that. That's a very good one. Oh my goodness.

1:05:48

What I've learned about you today is that you are a humble servant leader with a great passion

1:05:54

for helping other people. You have an awesome family, a wife you've known since the sixth grade,

1:06:00

which is incredible. And she's been a, a, a driving force for you

1:06:06

and achieving your goals. And you've gotten your degree here at University of Phoenix,

1:06:11

and you are on your way to your masters, and we are so excited and excited to have you back on the show once you graduate.

1:06:19

I wanna see you walk across that stage, though. - All right. All right. - Okay. It's a promise.

1:06:25

- It's a promise. I, I'm, I've, I've, I've got, I've got all the regalia to go along with it, so I have no excuse.

1:06:31

- You know, there's a different robe for masters. - Oh, really? All right, well, - I won't, I won't.

1:06:36

I'll, I'll let, I'll let you, I'll let you have the surprise. I won't tell you - The, - The new special thing, but you get a new robe for masters

1:06:42

- Now I'm even more excited 12 months from now, should 11, it's 11 month program, right?

1:06:48

- That's right, that's right. I'm looking forward to it. I'm excited to see you walk across that stage.

1:06:53

- Thank you. - So now I have rapid fire questions for you,

1:06:58

uhoh, and these are so much fun. - Okay. All right. I love fun - All. Yes. I don't

1:07:03

- How much more fun could have gotten so far? - It has been so much fun. It has been a blast.

1:07:09

And this is your wrap up, so I'm excited about it. Okay, so first, first question, book that changed your life.

1:07:16

- Book that changed my life. Wow, that's a big one.

1:07:25

Z for Zacharia. Okay. - Early bird or Night Owl. - Oh, I am neither.

1:07:32

So I know that's, I know that's a weird answer, right? So I believe, I believe in what your body tells you to do.

1:07:40

So when it's time to wake up, it's time to wake up, get up with a purpose, and when your body tells you it's time to go

1:07:46

to bed, it's time to go to bed no matter how much fun you're having. So, because I believe your body tells you what to do.

1:07:52

So yeah, I'm, I'm kind of neither I can go either way. So sometimes I'm, I, I wake up early

1:08:00

and when my body says it's time I'm up. And sometimes Saturday I woke up at six o'clock in

1:08:06

the morning ready to go. And on Sunday, I didn't wake up till 10 in the morning. So there you go.

1:08:11

- Listen to your body. That's a good one. I'm gonna have to add that in there. That's really good. Your go-to productivity hack.

1:08:18

- Productivity hack. You've got some questions. These are just, I thought you were gonna, like, I thought

1:08:24

for sure, like rapid fire was gonna be like, what kind of candy bar do you like? I'm like, I just say Butterfinger. That's easy.

1:08:33

Productivity hack. - I think you actually gave it away earlier you said,

1:08:38

and correct me if I'm wrong, but when you were getting your degree, you actually used your lunchtime

1:08:44

and a little bit of your time before you went home to do the majority of your homework,

1:08:49

so you weren't stuck on the weekends. - Yeah. You know, I, I am a procrastinator, so my productivity hacks are, are few and far between.

1:08:57

But yes, I, i that I, I will take what you just gave me is that just use every opportunity you have to,

1:09:06

and I call it sneaking in to sneak in the things that you need to do because it it, if you try

1:09:13

to do it all at once, especially as a procrastinator, that's what triggers you to say, this is just gonna take forever.

1:09:20

But if I can do 45 minutes at a time and just come back to it, it makes it so much easier on,

1:09:28

I think the stress level that you have of what I need to accomplish. If you can just take little bites at a time, that,

1:09:34

that's definitely, that's definitely my productivity hack is little bites at a time. Make it easier. It reduces the stress level.

1:09:41

- Absolutely. And we could use less stress. - Yes. - What's the best advice you've ever received? Plan

1:09:49

- Your work and work your plan. - Plan your work, and work your plan. - My dad said that to me. I don't think he's the

1:09:55

one that came up with it. I don't, but that was his, that was his motto was plan your work and work your plan.

1:10:01

And that has always stuck with me. If you have a plan, you can work it out. - Well, I've never heard it before, so we're,

1:10:08

we're gonna go ahead and credit it to dad. - All right, good. Thank you. - What's your go-to karaoke song?

1:10:15

- Oh, I do, you do not want to hear me sing at all. And it drives my kids and my wife absolutely crazy.

1:10:23

But the weird thing is, is I have a, a weird knack of remembering weird trivia questions,

1:10:33

which also makes me keep in my brain lyrics to songs.

1:10:40

And so it doesn't matter whether, and I like all kinds of genres of music, but I can sing along out loud to all kinds of music

1:10:49

and from all kinds of different artists. And I know the words from all long time ago till today.

1:10:56

But you do not want me to do any karaoke. I do not. I do not sing and I do not dance,

1:11:02

and I do not, I can, I am not musically inclined in any way, shape, or form.

1:11:09

- And then your last one is simply your personal motto. - Well, my personal motto is really just plan your

1:11:14

work and work your plan. But, you know, at, at the end of the day, my, my,

1:11:20

my motto is just, it's, it, it's cliche as it may be. It's just no regrets.

1:11:26

Live your life with no regrets. Make decisions with no regrets.

1:11:31

- That is, that is excellent. I completely agree. And the floor is yours. These are your closing thoughts.

1:11:38

If there's anything you want our audience to know, or if you have any, any other advice that you wanted to give, feel free,

1:11:44

- Create a bucket list as, as much as I know that became a cliche statement, and I know there was a movie that was made about it,

1:11:51

but create a bucket list. Write it down. What are the things that you want

1:11:56

to do in your life? And, and the bucket list will change. It will, it will migrate and you know, things will fall off

1:12:05

and new things will get added. But definitely create a bucket list and work your way to checking things off the list.

1:12:13

And it doesn't always have to be, you know, oh, I wanna travel around the world, I wanna go to Europe. But I've had a bucket list of, of going back to school

1:12:22

and giving my bachelor's degree. It was always on my list. It just may have been at the bottom of the bucket.

1:12:28

And so, but keep it there and, and always look at it and, and reflect on it.

1:12:33

And I read this once somewhere that said, always continue to write your own eulogy.

1:12:45

I know that sounds kind of sick, but what would you want? What always work towards never give up

1:12:52

writing your own eulogy. So what is it that you would want when it's your time to go? What is it that you want other people to say about you?

1:13:00

I'll leave that for everybody else to kind of decide what that, what that means to them, but - Absolutely.

1:13:05

Well, I know that you have a lot more to accomplish that you're gonna be here for a long time.

1:13:11

What I would say I've learned about you is that you are gonna continue to serve

1:13:17

and change lives in your community. And we are grateful for you. We're excited to watch you walk across that stage

1:13:24

with your master's degree and to, to watch those two incredible daughters and your awesome wife cheer for you as you do so.

1:13:31

- Thank you, - Matthew, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your incredible journey with us.

1:13:37

That brings us to the end of this episode of Degrees of Success. Don't forget to like and subscribe.

1:13:43

I'm your host, Frida Richards, reminding you that your next chapter might just be your best one yet.

1:13:50

See you next time.

### Chapters in this video

- Early life and background
- Meeting his future wife in sixth grade
- Family life
- Career choices over traditional education
- Franchise ownership challenges
- Health journey and open-heart surgery
- Pursuing higher education later in life
- Finding flexibility with online learning
- Key lessons and reflections on education

## About UOPX alumnus Matthew Phillips

UOPX alumnus [Matthew Phillips](https://www.phoenix.edu/blog/uopx-alumni-spotlight-matthew-phillips.html) is chief of staff and customer service officer at the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department. A 2023 graduate of University of Phoenix with a Bachelor of Science in Management, Phillips has also served as the chief operating officer of The Heat and Warmth Fund, a nonprofit serving low-income Michigan residents. He also stretched his entrepreneurial interests when he became a Jersey Mike’s franchisee.

## About the Degrees of Success™ Podcast

The_Degrees of Success_podcast by University of Phoenix brings you inspiring stories of UOPX alumni who have transformed their careers through education. Each episode highlights personal journeys of overcoming obstacles, achieving professional milestones and using education to unlock new opportunities. Whether you’re looking for motivation, career advice or guidance on how education can propel you forward, these alumni stories offer invaluable insights to help you succeed.

## Listen to the Degrees of Success™ Podcast

## Featured Article

### UOPX Alumni Matthew Phillips

**July 23, 2024 • 8 minutes**

[Read article](/blog/2024/07/uopx-alumni-spotlight-matthew-phillips.html)[Back to all episodes](https://www.phoenix.edu/blog/alumni-chronicles/podcast.html)[Back to Blog](/blog.html)