From chef to executive leader with UOPX alumnus Gary Batara

- Hello and welcome to the Degrees of Success podcast. 0:15 I'm your host, Frida Richards. And today we have an incredible guest. We have Gary Batara, the Vice President 0:22 of Marketing at Garden. His story is one of transformation from French culinary school to the boardroom, 0:28 and from ruthless ambition to mindful leadership. He's a two-time, university of Phoenix alum earning an MBA 0:36 and a bachelor's degree. He's an author and an entrepreneur proving that reinvention is possible. 0:43 Gary, thank you so much for joining us, Rita. - Thanks for having me. - Absolutely. We are so excited to have you 0:49 and hear more about your journey and your story. So let's just jump right in. Tell me what were you like as a kid? 0:57 - You know, I think I was actually pretty silly as a kid, and I, I think that the silliness part and, 1:03 and I think part of the mindfulness part was, you know, for me that was like a mask. You know, I found that being funny with people was a way 1:12 to kind of mask like the lack of confidence, right? Because that was, you know, likability Meet Gary Batara 1:18 and that trait I think just, it stayed with me, you know? And likability ended up being such a big part of that. 1:25 So, you know, I was, I was like that as a kid, which meant I have a lot of friends, but at some point, you know, like you have a volume 1:32 of friends and you're like, man, I, I don't really know if I'm close to anybody, you know? 1:38 - Yes, I do know. I do know. What do you think that, do you think that that led 1:43 to you being a people pleaser at all? - I, I would say so. You know, I mean, one of the books I had read 1:53 not too long ago, it, it essentially talked about that, that, you know, so I'm, I'm Filipino American, right? We're, you know, kind of living a quiet life is sometimes 2:01 disguised as humility, right? When really you're just maybe not doing such a good job at 2:06 kind of, I think really being who you are, right? So you're like, oh, fit into this box. But I think as a kid I was, you know, 2:14 conformity I think was something that was praised, you know, not taking up too much space was praised, you know, 2:19 not really making a fuss of things was, was praised, you know? So that's what I was as a kid, you know, like I'm likable 2:26 as a kid, likable as a son, you know, like did the things parents asked, you know, and you kinda check all those boxes. 2:32 And that's, I think, you know, I think for many kids it was, it was actually kinda like that. I think in retrospect, I, I think a lot 2:38 of people can probably relate. - Absolutely. Pick me. 2:44 So do you have any brothers or sisters? - I do, I do. And I had always looked up to them 2:50 because they were, you know, my brother was, brother and sister were concert pianists. They were, you know, 2:57 getting into really good schools like USF working at Stanford. 3:02 I mean, they're just all accomplished, right. You know, and you know, my dad worked in finance. 3:08 My mom worked at a really well-known hospital in the area too. So it was just, all I saw was this, it was like excellence 3:13 of discipline and achievement, and you're playing instruments and you're getting good grades, you know? 3:19 So for me, I was like, man, how come I don't want or aspire or even have results like that? 3:26 And I always thought something was kind of wrong with me. - Well, I know there was definitely nothing wrong with you, 3:31 but let me ask you, you've got a brother and a sister that, or overachievers doing incredible things. 3:39 Definitely mother and father setting that example, leading the way, and then you go 3:46 into the food industry. How did, how did, how did you get there? And then also French food versus Filipino food. 3:57 - Yeah, it, it, it's a super interesting story. So I had some family who had worked in restaurants and, 4:04 and we've always kind of heard about that, that, you know, I think I was nine years old when I made my first cake and it was like, you know, the kind of cake you put like out 4:09 of a box and just put water and like throw in the oven. And I was like, oh man, this is great. Anyhow, one of my brother's friends was like, oh man, like, you're really good at cooking. 4:16 And I was like, baby, I'm really good at cooking, you know? So anyhow, I, from there started to, to actually believe 4:23 that I was like really good at making stuff and saying I went to culinary school because it was something I thought that was uniquely mine. 4:30 You know, like I had grown up playing violin, but my brother and sister grew up playing piano. 4:35 And so everything they did, I was like, I'm just not that good at, at, at, I always compared myself to them. I was like, well, they're really good at piano. 4:41 I'm kind of really crappy at violin, so I need to find something. 4:46 And cooking for me was that one thing that was like, truly mine. And, and I just, I started to cook and do more things. 4:55 And over time, when it was time, I think it was in eighth grade, I was like, what are you gonna do in the future? And, you know, I actually copied what my buddy said. 5:02 He was like, I can be a chef. I'm like, that sounds good. I like cooking. And then that, that's kind of where it went. And so that, that was my unique thing 5:08 and I felt like it was finally something I had that I could own myself. - Well, I imagine going 5:15 into culinary school and studying French cuisine had 5:20 to be a surprise to your parents. Tell me about that. Tell me about that whole experience. 5:26 What, what did that look like and, and what was, what was your experience at being a chef? 5:32 - Yeah, so I had started cooking when I was about 15 and a half. And it was all like Italian food. 5:38 It was for Italian catering company. This was out in Napa. And that's where I kind of started slurring European cuisine. 5:45 And when you go to culinary school, this is, you know, back in, you know, early two thousands, like food was not 5:50 what food was today, right? Like Emeril lag was just coming out that time. You know, everything was about the classic technique. 5:57 So French technique and, and, and culinary of from let's say the olden days. 6:03 But it was really champion, like do the classic techniques, like that's a cool thing, you know? And so anyhow, French cuisine to me, 6:10 'cause I like slow foods, like stews, I like the classic stuff like, you know, beef boon. 6:16 And I also liked a lot of the French pastries. So to me that was like the echelon of man, 6:22 that's really good technique because it's done in the old way. You're doing it by hand. It's the hardest way to do it. 6:29 Rich flavors. And nobody like knew what the hell that was back in the day. They were like, oh, what is that? 6:36 And they're like, it's actually the stuff that you would find all the time. Like, you know, steak fruits, right? Like that's a French dish, right? 6:42 And so, but a lot of people didn't know that. And again, it wasn't socialized. So cooking at that time wasn't as in vogue as it is today. 6:50 So at the time, people were like, oh, okay, well you wanna be a, you wanna be a chef? And what kind of food do you like cooking? 6:56 I was like, French food. And they were like, that's so crazy. That's so weird. I don't really even know much French food. I was like, I like, but if I could articulate it now, 7:03 I would say I like the cooking techniques that I had learned there. 'cause I really, what I came to find later, 7:08 I wasn't really good at plating food. I was really good at cooking food. So for me, the production of it was really fun, 7:13 like getting the right ingredients and then actually doing the, the prep work on all the food 7:20 and all the ingredients as well as just the small stuff, like really searing something properly, right? De glazing it, and then like letting the stews 7:27 layer with flavor over time. Like, that's what I liked about it. I didn't know how to say that at the time though. It just happened to be French food 7:32 was where I did that the most. - Oh my goodness, Gary, I, I just ate and you're making me so hungry. 7:38 All of those things sound absolutely delicious. So let me ask, do you still cook? 7:43 And if so, what's your favorite thing to cook? - Yeah, so I cook almost I'd say a couple times a, 7:49 a couple times a night for my kids and my wife. And you know, it's a lot more toned down certainly, 7:56 but like the cooking, the production of the cooking, I still do and I still love it, you know, I think, and you know, for me now it's, well, 8:03 especially now being a father husband, like that's the place where we get together, we have a dinner every single night, Lessons from Culinary Arts 8:10 we're having a conversation, we're getting a chance to connect. And you know, it sounds so trite, right? Like, okay, we should have family dinners. 8:16 But you know, like when I grew up, my folks were working so hard, we didn't really have too many dinners together. They were working late, 8:22 they were doing night shifts, that kind of stuff. So I always really crave that. So for my kids and, 8:28 and my wife, that's such an important part. And you know, for me it's like I should be able to bang something out in like 20, 25 minutes, right? 8:33 So yeah, it's, it's kind of a fun little way for me to still get the cooking bug outta my system 8:40 and then also get them to have something that's like, oh, okay, this was well done. Like, even if it was just like, I don't know, like bacon 8:46 and eggs, you know, just but doing it, right? - Yes. Do any of your littles have any desire to start cooking or do they just love dad's food? 8:54 - No, they like, like use storing stuff, you know, so, but hey, I get it. You know, like, I, I think cooking is relative. 9:01 You're like, all right, is, is s Syrian cooking or is like storing the stuff cooking? Like, it's a broad term, but you know, I, I want them to like, I think walk away 9:10 that it's good to have regular meals and it's good to cook stuff at home. - Yes, you could, you save yourself not only money, 9:17 but also a whole bunch of different chemicals. So I completely agree. That's right. I completely agree. 9:23 Well, we know you're no longer a chef. What did that transformation look like for you? Like how long were you a chef 9:29 and then as you moved into the corporate world of food, what did that look like? 9:35 - Yeah, so at the time I was probably early twenties and I was working at a restaurant in Berkeley. 9:44 And at that time, like organic food and women owned and fair trade were just starting to like get a lot of buzz. 9:50 And I came across an organization called Guggenheimer and they were looking for actually someone to do pastries. 9:57 And so I was like, yeah, but no one wants to do corporate catering and food like that. That sounds terrible. 10:02 It's like if you were to fail as a chef, like you absolutely like, okay, go do corporate catering, especially like in the early two thousands. 10:08 'cause it was basically cafeteria food, right? But like at that time is right when it started 10:14 to really grow. And a lot of people know this, that's when Google starts really hire chefs 10:21 and starts to have like killer food programs like today. Now it's everywhere. Like you go to any really large organization, they're gonna have like chefs on site. 10:28 Like the food is the same quality if not better, many times for restaurants. At that time it wasn't like that, it was just starting 10:33 to spin up and I was at like the, I'm gonna say the forefront, but I was certainly at that time in the Bay Area, it started to kind of spin up. 10:41 So I went there and that was pretty much at that time where they said, you know, you're gonna be really good on the 10:46 management side of things. And you know, again, for me that was just like, oh man, I thought I was gonna cook. 10:52 That's actually what you wanted me to do. And you know, once I just started talking, I kept thinking like, damn, 10:57 I should just like not say anything, you know? But you know, over time I was like, all right, like maybe this is my, my calling. 11:03 And so that's where working with people and leadership and you know, the same high I got from production was no different than 11:10 handling tons of tasks that were, you know, high pressure. - Absolutely. It, the, 11:15 your career is definitely a journey, right? You never know what aspect of your career is actually gonna feed into 11:21 another part in the future. Because you literally went from chef to the vice president of marketing. 11:27 So when, when you, when you had that career path change, where, what was 11:34 that first position and then how, how did that look moving forward? 11:39 - Yeah, so I, I was working at the time for, again, a corporate food service company. 11:44 They were called guggenheimer, but they did food for like all the major tech companies at the time. At the time it was like Sun, Microsoft, 11:50 it was Google, it was Nike. I was to, at the time, sun, sun, sun Microsystem, sorry, 11:56 sun Microsystems, which is no longer around. But that's why I started as a food service director. 12:02 And your number one job as a food service director is to get engagement or basically increase revenues. 12:07 And so that's where it was like, how do we get as many people, you, these campuses were huge, like five, 10,000 people, so how do we get them to spend time there? 12:16 And there was this whole strategy around talent engagement and, and so on and so forth. But it was like, how do we get them in here? 12:21 And it was like, all right, let's do really good food. Let's do marketing, let's do promotions. So it was really like kind of boots 12:26 on ground type promotions. Like if we kind of wave this, the sign today people came and that increased revenues. 12:32 Then it was like, okay, how do we get them to come back a second time, a third time? And that's how these organizations were measured. 12:39 If you as a corporate caterer can come in and get the population to spend as much time on campus 12:44 as possible, that was a good thing. And all the accounts I was at, which was Sun Microsystems and ultimately went to EA 12:51 and then Google Food, that's where I started to get more and more on that side sales marketing. 12:56 So I would have the regional managers and directors come to me and be like, what are you doing here? Because I need that here in Texas. What are you doing here? 13:03 Because I need to have the same problem here in New York. And that's where it just started. And I got far removed from operations 13:09 and they put me into the sales and marketing side. And I, I did that for a number of years and that's where I got, I'd say, I'd say the big break. 13:17 But getting involved at Google was the biggest thing. 'cause they said, we want to do what we're growing here in San Francisco 13:24 across the Americas. And at the time that was called the Google Food team, but now it's, it's part of essentially the ruse team 13:32 or the real estate workplace services. And at the time they called experiences. So that's where I just got really involved. 13:38 And at the time they were like, Hey, let's start really doing some brand positioning. Why should people have good food? What's the return on that? 13:45 And is there a brand that we can kind of create around that? Is there lifestyle choices that we can impact? 13:51 Because let's say that at some point, if somebody is eating here a lot, it's our social 13:57 and moral obligation to make sure that they're not crashing at two o'clock. So let's feed them healthy food. Because if they're eating healthy food, 14:03 they're probably more productive and they're probably also not likely to get heart disease. And you know, when employees die from heart disease, 14:09 it costs companies millions of dollars. So all of that work just started to snowball. And you know, at the time it's like the golden age. 14:16 So people were pouring money into these programs. And so I just, I happened to have such a lucky journey 14:21 where, you know, people were pouring money into these programs and more and more marketers started to come on board. 14:28 And that's just kind of how it started. And so I did that for a number of years. And in 2018, then I went to a startup 14:34 because everybody at the time was like, leave going these to, from these big organizations and go to a startup. 14:40 And the startup I was at just happened to be Garton. And we had raised about 120 million 14:46 and became a Y Combinator top 100. So - Seems like a good - Choice. Yeah, I think I was just kind of lucky. 14:52 - You know what, I, I think you're talented based off of your resume and the things that you've done, 14:58 but I also know that you've been very honest about how you were ruthless in climbing that corporate ladder. 15:05 Can you give an example of like the ways in which you felt that you were ruthless? 15:10 - Yeah, you know, I mean, people don't wanna talk about this, but you know, the reality is, especially in corporate America, 15:18 your skillset's one thing, right? But on, on a, a real thing is people wanna work with people they like, right? 15:24 And what I started to realize was people at the top, they weren't necessarily picking the best candidate 15:29 to bring the next PE people to the top with them. They were like, I like you, 15:35 and if I like you, I'm gonna give you better opportunities. And because I had this ability to speak 15:40 to people really well, and you know, just starting from small talk Overcoming Personal Struggles 15:46 to regular conversations, and I don't know, arguably you can say that's networking, but I knew what I was doing. 15:52 I was aiming to get into good graces with the executives and that meant I'll raise my hand to do a project, right? 15:59 And knowing that, you know, the vast majority of people who were working on the project weren't gonna be super vocal about them working on the project. 16:06 And so I was like, Hey, I'll be the one to actually talk about the project. I have no problem doing that. Right? And so that visibility, I started to learn very quickly 16:14 that if I have visibility and on top of that, if I'm well liked, then I can be 16:20 that one touchpoint for all the executives and then the executives, all they do is deal with problems. So if you're the problem solving guy, 16:27 then they're gonna constantly give you more things to solve. And I just saw it, I was like, man, I was, it was so obvious 16:34 to me, I totally didn't deserve to be in that room, but I was very vocal and I played the game. 16:39 I understood how to get in that room in the first place because when directives come out of c-suite organizations, 16:45 all of the team members who are, who are tasked to do it, they will do the job. 16:50 There's no doubt about it. And that's why I started to learn. I was like, oh man, you absolutely can leverage the 16:57 work of tons of people to further your own career. And no one, no one talks about that. 17:06 Most people I think, talk about this idea that, oh yeah, man, like you know, my bosses, they don't appreciate me and so on and so forth. 17:12 And to some degree that's probably true, right? Because they're given certain tasks to move forward 17:21 by any means necessary, really. And that's when I started to see it. Like I remember being in rooms 17:26 where people were looked at like numbers and saying, okay, well if we just cut this entire group, what's the impact of that? 17:33 And I was like, probably nothing, because the next group next to them is gonna have to pick up the work and they're gonna have to do it because they're not likely gonna leave. 17:40 And I remember being like, man, I've never seen shifting like that of the masses. And it was to hit revenue goals, it was 17:48 to hit target KPIs, right? And you know, if there's any executives out there listening to that, they know exactly what I'm talking about. 17:54 'cause it's exactly what happens in these rooms. But not saying like, oh man, but this person's been here for 25 years. Or like, okay, if we need to cut costs and do A, B 18:02 and C, what's the fastest way to point B? It's like, well do this because, you know, you're, I found that you're kind of protecting the people 18:08 that are on this inner circle. And so rare, I, so oftentimes again, I see people like, oh, I'm not in the inner circle, so I'm getting treated poorly 18:16 while I was on the inner circle. And I got more opportunities and more growth just, 18:24 I'd say not, not just opportunities, but it was warm intros, right? Where like, I like this person. 18:29 And when you're introduced into an organization where, or a project where you're liked, you already have a positive perception. 18:38 So your work, even if it's good or not, it doesn't matter. Like you're going to move forward regardless. 18:43 And when I started seeing that, I started boom, moving fast, really fast to the point where people were like, 18:51 how are you in the board meeting? I was like, oh, I just am liked, you know? 18:57 And at some point I was like, man, and, and it started to just, it starts to chip away at you at some point 19:02 that you start realizing like, there's a lot of unqualified people that are in that room and they shouldn't be. 19:08 And he starts to see all the, and I remember, you know, boardrooms are oftentimes like, it's all glass. So I remember seeing people walk by being like, man, 19:15 you're the one who actually did all the work here. You're the one who actually, you and your team are the one who probably should be here 19:20 speaking on behalf of the projects. But that will never happen because I'm more likable 19:27 and it's a, it's a really messed up truth, but anybody who's climbed a corporate ladder quickly like knows exactly what I'm talking about. 19:34 And I think at some point you get to a point where you're like, damn, I don't like myself anymore. 19:40 And so I think that, you know, same thing, you'll get to the top of the mountain, but you're alone, 19:45 - Right? Right. Because you took the opportunity to use other people's work and instead of lifting them up 19:52 or putting the light on them, taking that opportunity to have it lift you up. 19:57 But what I know about you is that you're an excellent leader. So I imagine as a leader now, this is something that you 20:05 stay away from or encourage others not to do. How would you say, oh, it's, what would you say your leadership style is like now? 20:10 - It's, yeah, I mean, that's the super toxic trait and, and that comes out so quickly anyway, right? 20:16 But I think now certainly it's, you know, I'll take way more 20:21 blame and way less credit, right? And because especially when you get to, when you get 20:26 to a point of leadership, you're really not touching anything. Like you are absolutely dependent on the results of others. 20:32 And there's two ways you can do that. You can, you can have them, you know, work as if they're in some sort of factory and mill 20:39 and then take those results and pass it on, right? Which is I think what, what a lot of managers do. Or you can say, alright, I'm, 20:46 I have one job, it's still work for you. Let me remove all the crap that's in your way that prevents you from doing a good job. 20:52 And most of the time, the people, they don't really need to be told what to do. They're the ones boots on the ground. 20:57 They just need to be listened to. And you're gonna get the best insight if you just actually sit back and say, okay, come to me 21:03 and tell me what needs to be done. I'm gonna be an advocate for you. And it was no surprise that, you know, 21:09 now I get these people who are like, oh, please don't leave and you know, if you go somewhere, I'll go with you. Whereas before, it was kind of just like, oh, 21:16 this guy's gonna come into the room. He wants the updates, he wants this night, he doesn't care about us, and we're gonna pass on the 21:21 information and I'm gonna stay in my same position. Well, I see the sky skyrockets at the top, right? 21:26 And it is just so messed up. Even as I say it, I feel gross because I saw, like, it'd be different if I did that 21:33 and it kinda had mediocre results, right? But at some point when I was in rooms with global executives, especially when the, 21:39 when Guggenheimer was getting acquired at that time, and I remember seeing my, my buddies like not invited 21:47 to certain dinners, and I was sitting at dinner where I had, you know, a global CEO to my right, a global CEO to my left 21:54 and all, and all I had to do was say, what projects are you working on that I could be part of? 22:00 And they were like, pick, I'm gonna connect you with this person. And they've already been told to just get you set up 22:06 with a really strong project that's gonna have a lot of visibility. And I can't even tell you how gross that feels at, 22:13 at some point when you're, when you see people who are doing tons of hard, hard work 22:20 and you know, just not, not having the same benefits. And so I just kind of vowed to myself, I was like, man, 22:27 this is not a really good way to live, because I can guarantee you that's not the only place it shows up. 22:33 You become selfish everywhere, you know? And so this is where it was like, you know, 22:39 you're clearly not gonna be good in relationships, not gonna be a good son, not gonna be a good brother, right? 22:44 You're not gonna be good at anything. You're just, you're, you're, you get to the top and yeah, you have the successes, but you, you've, you've lost yourself. 22:51 And I think that that's just, it's, its a cautionary tale, let's put it that way. And most CEOs I know, especially when I went 22:58 to the startup world, they're the ones who were like, Hey man, this is all about growing people. This is a mission that we're on. 23:04 And so when I went to Garten, they were like, this is the mission that we're on. We wanna empower people to live blissful lives. 23:10 And I was like, I've never heard of that. And you know, they had these values and they, you know, it's so gross. And people say like, oh, we're family at a business, right? 23:17 But they're like, no, like this is, like, we wouldn't do that to people. And so I think for me it was, it was refreshing 23:23 to be like, this is like a reset. And so I think that really was it. It was like, you know, at some point you, 23:29 you skyrocket so fast. And you know, there's a book that I love, it's called The Second Mountain, you know, the First Mountain. 23:35 It's, it's so focused on us, especially in America, hyper individualism. 23:40 Like, I want to grow this, I want to get this, I want to do, I want to be, and now I'm here and now I'm alone. 23:46 And then it talks about like, you falling down this bound, like this like pit of despair, right? And then now you pick yourself back up 23:52 and you go up to the second mountain and it's outwardly focused, but you can only be very outwardly focused if, if, 23:59 and I don't know, maybe it's just my story, but I really had to hate what it was in order to be like, 24:05 never again, never gonna do that again. I'm gonna do it the right way in order to be like, all right, come with me. 24:11 And I think that that's what makes it, you know, because as a manager, or certainly in in executive leadership, you have tons 24:19 of chances to further your own career, tons of chances to influence the life of somebody else. From Employee to Executive 24:24 And now it's, again, it's a moral obligation. Like, I can't see myself doing that without being like, ah, 24:30 man, that's, that's not good behavior. Like, shame on you, especially for raising children. Like, it just, it just doesn't align. 24:35 And so, and no surprise around that time is when, you know, we started family. So it just, it just seemed to be like, 24:42 these are the attributes that, you know, a good man should do and have. - Yes. I find that very interesting one, I, 24:50 I could totally see how your heart could grow when becoming a parent, right? Because now it is no longer just about you and your wife, 24:56 but about, you know, the, these little humans. But I also find it interesting, the foreshadowing of your childhood, of wearing the mask 25:04 and pleasing the people and being very likable and then using that same mask 25:14 in your corporate life, so to, to work your way up that corporate ladder. 25:19 I'm curious, when you met, when you were, when you were doing that as you were climbing, did you meet anyone that influenced you 25:27 to be a better leader? Like the leader you are now? - Yeah, his, his name was Randall Boyd, 25:35 and he came in as CEO specifically to get the company ready for acquisition. 25:41 And so at the time, you know, this, this company was the corporate food service company I was working for. 25:48 They weren't really in good shape. The founder had passed away, unfortunately, so needed kind of a turnaround. And he kind of came in with these, these really core values 25:56 of like, family, and I want to play fair, but I also wanna be first. 26:02 I think there's a way to do that. And I ended up being in a room with him. 26:08 You know, I, I think, I actually remember one day where he was, we had to do a big project and of course I was there in the room and just waiting. 26:14 And he was like, okay, you come with me, right? And he was like, you know, here's what we're gonna do in wine. 26:19 I just remember getting a front row seat to really strong leadership. And it was, you know, you hear this a lot. 26:26 Simons Neck talks about this a lot about Nelson Mandela, how, you know, he grew up in, in, in a tribe. 26:33 And his father was like a tribal leader, right? And he was, one of the biggest takeaways he had was his father spoke last. 26:39 That's what Randall did. He just spoke last. He let everybody else speak without influencing and then allowed everyone else to give their opinions 26:46 and leaders speak last. I was like, what? Why are you doing that? You don't need to do that. You're the man. 26:52 You're the one who could tell everybody what to do. And I just saw this level of empowerment that I just was like, man, and, 26:57 and this guy had, you know, had good family. He was ob, he was obviously well off, you know? 27:03 And I was like, wow, you can have all that and you seem like a decent human being. 27:08 That's inspiring to me. And till this day, we're very close. 27:14 - That is incredible. It is so important to have, well, someone that you, 27:19 you know, you follow their, your, their career and they support you in yours and just someone to look up to 27:25 and guide you in your career. And it seems like now that is you for many people, 27:34 - Which is he, he a and, and he, he told me something, actually, he had said, 27:39 I asked someone one time, and this is before I left for the startup. This is like me kind of going through like my, 27:44 I think I'm kind of a crappy person thing. I went to his office one day and I was like, company sold 27:50 and now you're moving on, what are you doing? He was like 50 years old and he was like, I'm retiring. I was like, kinda guy. I was like, 27:57 and I asked, I was like, how do I get there? How do I get in that seat? And he told me, he was like, are you educated? 28:04 I said, well, I've got tons of work experience. Went to culinary school and dah da da. He is like, no. He's like, go to school, get your degrees. 28:11 Like degrees plural. And he was like, go get your bachelor's, go get your master's, do it. 28:18 I was like, I got kids now though. I have all these things. And he was like, do it. And it was about two years later where I did. 28:26 And so I, I'll never forget that because it wasn't like, get the degrees because you're going to become super rich, successful. 28:34 Like, if I had to go back in time and ask him now, it would be because doing those hard things I think was good for me. 28:42 You know, he was a very intelligent CEO, so I can't imagine that he didn't see the ways by which I moved up the ladder, you know? 28:50 And so I think for him it was like his way of being like, you know, get your stuff together, man. 28:55 Go to school because you, you need a little bit of humbling. 29:01 - Yes, I definitely understand that. I, one of my favorite sayings is, 29:06 anything worth having is worth working for. So if you want it, you have to be willing to fight for that thing. 29:14 So I heard you say that, that that, that that boss actually told you to go to school 29:20 and to get not one but two degrees, and you did exactly that here at University of Phoenix. 29:26 So how did you choose University of Phoenix? - I was, I was looking for all kinds of different 29:33 online institutions and anything from like, you know, my wife had went to 29:39 Berkeley and she also went to Notre Dame. So I was like, all right, well let me, let me look at those. And all these were like physical classes 29:45 and, you know, little, little ones at the time weren't in full time. So totally just bought into what I saw in the commercials 29:51 where people were like, oh, they work on my schedule, you know? And so I went to look at one for sure though, that had the, 29:59 that was fully accredited. And I think that was really important to me that if I was to take classes here, I can go to like a Stanford or Harvard 30:06 and it was this, it was credentialed the same. And I think that was the biggest thing for me. And so when I, when I went there and, 30:12 and I think I talked about this somewhere else as well, but I called and they weren't talking about the degree. 30:18 They were just like, what's your goal? What do, what do you wanna do? 30:23 Where do you see yourself in the next few years? When I was just like, look lady, I'm just looking for cost and timeline, you know? 30:30 And it wasn't that. And I just, I'll never forget that. And I was like, okay, this is, this is good. And I just, I went for it. 30:38 And you know, that was, that was it. Kinda just jumping in. - So you were drawn into the fact 30:44 that you weren't just a prospective call, you weren't just a number, you were Gary 30:50 and she wanted to know what Gary wanted to do to set him up for success. 30:56 - Yep. And she also had made it a point to say it wasn't gonna be easy. 31:03 And I thought that was kind of interesting because I thought that, you know, you might hear like, oh, it's, it's gonna be a walk in the park 31:08 and you have all these resources or like, are you ready for the work that it's going to involve? And for me, I was kind of searching 31:15 for some words at the time. It was like, are you, you know, I interpreted that. I was like, are you ready for change? And for me, actually hearing that I had to work for this 31:23 sounded kind of nice because at some point when they roll the red carpet out in front of you and you get to the top, 31:30 you don't feel like you earned it. You know? And that is, 31:35 it's a very lonely feeling of like shallow success. And so I was like, alright, I feel like this is a good, The Value of Authentic Leadership 31:42 this is gonna be a good thing for me. There ain't no way around it. I gotta do this class by myself. I have to, everything was on me. 31:49 There was no one I can lean on. It was just me. And for me, that was, it was refreshing 31:54 'cause it was like I couldn't run and I had to do the work for myself. And I was like, I kept wondering, am I, am I good enough to 32:02 earn the accolades that I have? I felt like the accolades were further than my capabilities 32:08 and that really noz away at you at some point. And so I was like, I'm gonna learn 32:14 as much as humanly possible. I'm gonna do everything. And that was it. And it was like, just pure discipline. 32:20 And this is where it was like, how do you fit in 20 to 30 hours a week into an ex already 32:25 busy schedule with kids? And on top of that, I was like, I need to learn more 32:31 because I need to have a mindset. And that's where I started to read, you know, or listen rather, I do a lot of audio books, all kinds 32:38 of books on mindset and philosophy and stoicism and how to deal with hard things and perception. And so it wasn't just like, alright, let me, if if it, 32:47 if it was like this pendulum swinging, it was like ease and comfort and success and then nothing. 32:53 It was like everything hard, everything earned the right way, way. And it was, that was it. 32:59 And I think for me it was, it was like being baptized, you know, like it was, it was a full blown 180 shift. 33:07 - Yes. What I'm, what I'm hearing you say is you have a great awareness of your drive 33:16 and also of you have a great mental health awareness as well. 33:22 Does that sound accurate? - Yeah, I, because I, I think that you, you know, same thing, like you can't attempt all 33:29 that without putting the right infrastructure in place. It was like, alright, I know the second I wake up in the 33:35 morning, there's gonna be assignments waiting for me and a crying child. No. And me starting at a new organization, right? 33:43 As well as me fighting my own indulgences to just find the quickest way to the top, right? 33:51 And so it was like, man, everything was really easy just yesterday and now everything is particularly hard. 33:58 So I don't really know if I was punishing myself, you know, for that. Or if it really was like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going 34:06 to like earn it this time. It was probably a mix of both, right? It was probably a little bit of like, shame on you. 34:11 You shouldn't have gotten that far that quick, right? As well as, all right, well now you know, what if my, 34:18 if my accolades are here and my skillsets here, let me work to like bridge that gap. 34:24 - And you did exactly that and earned both degrees. You know, I, I hear you taking accountability for that. 34:30 I wonder if the other men in the room or women in the room would have said the same thing 34:38 because the likelihood of them getting there in a similar pattern is high. 34:44 So I'm, I'm curious if you were the only one as self-aware. 34:50 - I can, I can tell you this much. There's not one person there that I was at the time were part of executive leadership, 34:56 whether it was a guggenheimer or whether it was a Google that are still there, everybody's gone. 35:02 And I think that's such a really telling sign. And the one person who still is consistent is random. 35:10 And he does his consulting and advice giving for free because he was like, I, I don't need the money. 35:15 I just do this for free. I love it. And so that to me also was over time just telling to say, 35:22 everybody who was kind of reaping the benefits at that time, they're all gone. No one's part of anything anymore. 35:28 There's no more leaders there anymore. And it'd be different if they're all there still. But that wasn't the case and I knew it. 35:33 So if anything that was a foreshadowing, this is my future, you might, you know, kind of be a very quick flash in the pan. 35:39 You got to the top, you stayed there, and then at some point it all crumbles. And I think I was lucky enough to leave 35:45 before it all crumbled. And I think that when it comes to, you know, university 35:51 of Phoenix for example, that's why I just hold such a really special place in my heart because when I, I was very vocal 36:00 with my professors on this 'cause I would tell 'em like, I want excellence, I want 36:06 to get straight A's and I want to ace everything. I'm like, they're like, oh, you don't need to do all that. 36:12 They were like, look man, these are practical exams. These are so and so forth. I was like, no, I want to be an excellence on everything. 36:19 And if you don't believe that, it's excellent, don't take it. And I remember saying this on like one of these orientations 36:25 and people were like, dude, this guy like overachiever. And I'm like, no, I swear to God. Like I'm not trying to do that. Like, I'm actually looking to work really hard here. 36:33 And they were like, okay. And I asked for their cell phone numbers. 36:38 So I remember it was, I, I think it was like one of my first classes, which was like the 36:44 worst of like statistics. And you know, the professor was like, look, 36:51 you said you wanted this, so here is the problem and here's an example sheet, read it, study it, everything. 36:57 And this was all before, like you had, you know, I think AI's really big now. I wish that existed back then because it would've been, it would've been a breeze, right? 37:04 But at the time it was like me with a fricking calculator being like, man, how do I, how do I figure this out? 37:09 And it was just, it was tough. And he was like, this is due, and if you really wanna do it right, then your first assignment's due Wednesday 37:17 and today's Monday night, you know, and it's like, oh man, they like what I get myself into. And I just kept thinking like, I know what it's like to get 37:25 to the top without having to earn that. And I was like, I just, lemme just see, 37:31 lemme see if I can do this. And at some point what I found is, you know, I used to be the big guy waving the flag, being like, 37:39 be passionate, be passionate. Chase your passion, right? But what I found is you can get passionate about stuff 37:44 that you're good at that you didn't, that you didn't even think you were passionate about. Like, I didn't think I'd be passionate about statistics, but when I started to get it, I was like, oh, this is cool. 37:51 I'm good at it. Here's the next problem, here's the next thing. Oh, I didn't know I could do that. Now I get this too. 37:57 And you become passionate about it. And that just, it opened my whole world of you can get really good at something 38:02 that you absolutely sunk at prior and then become passionate about it over time. 38:07 Meaning anything in life is up for grabs. Because I think that, you know, especially from, you know, 38:14 taking the fast track to things, ease was all I searched for comfort was all I searched for. 38:22 So being like, all right, that brought me here. And on paper everything looked really good. 38:27 I didn't like myself though. So doing the hard things, man, that was refreshing. 38:34 And I it, and I was proud of myself, I was proud of myself. And I think that ends up being one of the biggest, you know, 38:40 takeaways is, you know, and I don't know, may, maybe there's people who are born with this trait innate innately. 38:45 They're just like, I'll do hard work and I'm proud of myself. But for me, I was like, Ooh, what's the best way to point B? Even if I have to go like outside of the lines, you know? 38:52 But putting myself in this place where you can't escape now is this way, or I, it it breeds a confidence that 38:59 I can't even describe to people. 'cause it's so, it's so strong. 39:05 - So Gary, you've had a lot of transformative events happen in your life. 39:12 I wanna talk about one in particular. Tell me more about the day on the bridge. 39:18 - Yeah. Yeah, so it was an early evening. 39:23 I was leaving, I'd say early evening. I was, I just know it was nighttime and I was coming from the city 39:29 and I was going from San Francisco and I was crossing the Bay bridge. And if anyone's familiar with that, like you go 39:36 through a massive tunnel and it's like two or three mile stretch, but it's like always like packed, 39:42 always, always, always. And at this particular time, it just wasn't, it didn't look like it wasn't going to be. 39:47 So I just started going, you know, faster and faster and faster. And you know, I've, I've said this 39:52 before to, to someone in, in, in a separate interview, but I wasn't trying to hurt myself, 39:59 but I certainly didn't care what happened to me. And you know, it was almost as if I was just searching 40:06 for somebody to like slap me down something to slap me down. Because at some point when you're writing this, this, Mentorship and Paying It Forward 40:13 these layers of success, you're just like, is this, is this really happening? Like I'm, I'm in rooms with executives 40:19 and I'm getting all kinds of opportunities and I see people who are working significantly harder, 40:25 way smarter, not even getting a chance. And I was like, you know what, whatever, boom, 40:30 going fast, right? But to the, you know, pedal to the metal kind of thing and nothing, it was like nothing, like not a car, 40:38 not a cop. And this is like peak areas where you're gonna find cops and just, you know, just something, nothing. 40:46 And I made like two, three miles easily, well over a hundred miles an hour. And I got to the end and I took my foot off this accelerator 40:53 and it was just like nothing. And I just kept thinking to myself like, how is this possible? 40:59 Like, do something to me. This isn't, this isn't right. I can't keep taking these accolades, 41:05 I can't keep going further along here and all, all I am is alone. 41:10 And yet still even doing that, the universe would like said, oh, don't worry, here's a red carpet. 41:17 We're gonna make sure nothing happens to you. And I can't tell you just how gross I felt. 41:22 And so I turned my phone on, I went to go on YouTube and that's the first time I heard Tony Robbins 41:28 and Tony Robbins exactly what he said. He was like, you, you're a loser. And I was like, I am a loser, Tony. You know? 41:34 And he, I just, it was such a profound moment because he was like, but you could be better. 41:42 And that opened up my whole world to, to, to really think to myself, okay, well if the universe isn't gonna do it, 41:49 I gotta do this. And so let me do something to earn my own self-respect. 41:57 Because at some point I, I, I just, I can tell you there's, there's nothing like getting to the top of the mountain 42:03 by yourself and not having good relationships, healthy friendships, just knowing 42:11 that it wasn't done the right way. Because everybody wants to get to the end, everybody wants 42:16 to get to the top, but when you actually get there and it wasn't done right, it's, it's, it's, 42:22 I can't even describe how much it's not worth it. You wake up and you, you don't even wanna look at yourself in the mirror. 42:29 - I, I can only imagine in this hustle culture, 42:34 you know, we could sleep when we're dead type, you know, type culture. 42:41 You know, there, there's definitely a stigma in which you need to just keep focusing and working on your career 42:50 and not so much on yourself. And what, what I'm hearing you say is as you continued to work towards your career, you continued to go up and up 43:00 and up, but there was no, there was no value in that. You felt emptiness and sadness 43:06 and loneliness there, despite the fact that you had everything that she wanted, the, the money soon 43:12 to come, the the Porsche and, and, and other incredible things, material things 43:18 that people would definitely aspire to have. But what I'm understanding is that you found value 43:26 when you started to do work not for corporate and your career, 43:34 but for yourself. - Yeah, I think that one of the most important ones is just truly being 43:41 honest with yourself. Like, look at yourself in the mirror and really be, I'm like, give yourself permission 43:48 to fully be like, man, what? And I'll start off I cus here, but like, what the hell did I just do with my life? 43:55 How did I get here? And, and don't sugarcoat it either. Be like, I'm lazy, have anxiety, 44:02 I have all these really bad habits, like, don't lie to yourself. Like full blown, own it. 44:08 And I think that is a very hard thing for people to do. I say that for people 44:13 because that was impossible for me to do just years before that, right? But at some point when you really look at yourself and, 44:20 and just like give yourself a real honest assessment, it's hard. 'cause you're gonna find some stuff 44:26 that you don't wanna see, right? And you can't unsee that because I think for a lot of us we're so used 44:32 to wearing this mask, so used to putting this facade to be like, okay, let me now build this person of, of 44:38 who I think I'm supposed to be. So at some point when you take a full blown hammer to it 44:43 and just smash it, you don't wanna see what's on the back end of that. You don't wanna see what, like, how that structure was made. 44:50 And I think that for a lot of people, it's okay. Like at the time, again, like I was, I was managing, 44:58 you know, I'd say easily over, over a hundred people across the, the nation 45:05 and just given more and more opportunity of, of 45:10 success and growth opportunities. And all I knew was that 45:17 I absolutely had this like, gnawing thing. And I think if anybody's out there and you have that gnawing thing, like it's okay, like 45:24 open it up and it's okay if you do it like by yourself in the bathroom, like that's totally fine, but, but do it because now you have a good foundation to build. 45:33 Now you can really say, all right, if this is the case, and it doesn't even matter what you were before that. 45:40 I think that for it, it's like a two part thing I guess, and I'm probably overly explained this, 45:46 but be okay having an honest conversation with yourself in the mirror, but really go to town on yourself and say, all right, 45:52 what are all the things I'm really not proud of or the things I really want to change? And current state, right? Like, take off a mask. 45:59 The second part I think is I think being okay that maybe a part 46:07 of you might always be like that. And I used to think that it would be like this skin, 46:12 I would shed like, oh, I'm no longer gonna have anxiety. I'm no longer gonna have this, this need to want 46:18 to climb this corporate ladder. I, I don't think that, I don't think you ever do away with that. And I think that's this fallacy, like, you're going 46:24 to fix yourself. You're going to shed yourself of these things. It doesn't work like that. I think those things are 46:29 still always there. You become much better though at dealing with them. You can say to yourself, all right, 46:35 well I know it's a tendency of mine and I may have had a lot of results like that, but that doesn't mean I have to make that choice today, 46:40 so I'm just gonna go the other way. As opposed to being like, Hey, it's been like three weeks, or shouldn't I not have this anymore? 46:46 Like, no, you're always gonna have that and that's okay. You're always gonna have those tendencies that you want 46:51 to be a lesser person. That's normal. And I think that also, again, it's just, it's just giving yourself permission. 46:57 It's okay to be in a room with a bunch of happy people smiling and all that. And you're like, why do I not feel any of that? 47:05 How come I don't have that joy? How come I don't have that this and that? Like, it's okay, right? 47:10 Because what I've learned is that you'll have all of it. You're just kind of not having all the other 47:15 stuff that I think you want. Like it's not doing away with one to replace it with another. 47:20 That part will always be there, and that's okay. You become significantly better at dealing with it. 47:27 And I think that it's, it's a choice. It's a everyday choice being like, do I wanna be a piece of crap today? 47:32 Do I want to be a lesser person today? Because that person's right there, he is right behind you. 47:38 Right? Like, and you're never gonna do away with that. And I think that's a common misconception, 47:44 like, I'm gonna do away with this. And it's like, no. Like, no, you're not. That's okay because that's part of you, that's part of you. 47:49 And I used to keep, keep thinking like, there has to be something wrong with me because why does this part of me exist? 47:55 - No, and honestly, you, you mentioned, you know, being at a, maybe a dinner, a dinner party 48:01 and seeing someone else and seeing their joy or seeing, you know, a happy marriage Navigating Industry Changes 48:06 or whatever the case may be, and thinking like, I'm processing this and they're, they're feeling these feelings, 48:12 but they may just be masking. It could, that could not be their truth as well. 48:18 They may not be as brave as you are to actually 48:23 go all the way, rip, rip all the nonsense away, go straight to the foundation and work your way back up 48:28 to create a stronger, a stronger foundation. So I think that that is very powerful. 48:34 Look in the mirror, say what you need to say, say the truths about yourself, acknowledge them 48:41 and learn how to navigate and accept them because to your point, 48:47 they're never gonna go completely away, but know how to navigate away from those things. 48:55 - And I, I think this whole idea to give yourself permission, what I have found is almost every person I I, I know today, 49:04 whether I work with them or whether they're, you know, friends or family, most people are itching for that permission 49:12 to be like, oh, thank God you're, you're going through it too. Right? And, and I think that, you know, that 49:17 that's the root of connection. It's like, it's the authenticity behind it being like, Hey, like just throw on the same page. 49:22 Things kinda suck for you too. Right? Okay, cool. Like, and, and, and there's a, there's, and it's more than just authenticity and connection. 49:30 It's like we were, we're fed so much around 49:35 not just success, but these things should look this way. And it's, you know, a lot of people know this, right? 49:40 When you look at socially like this, that's not like real life necessarily, but it goes deeper because it's, it's actually saying 49:49 it's okay to have these flaws and inadequacies and, and things you're gonna deal with 49:55 because hell, you might deal with that the next 50 years, right? Like, that's okay 50:00 and it's okay to not, again, not just not be happy all the time, but it's okay to have these feelings where you're like, 50:06 damn, I could be a better person or I want to do these other things. But I haven't gotten there yet. 50:11 And I just think that the permission to do that, and the only reason I think I'm particularly more capable 50:16 of talking about this kind of stuff is because now I've got both. Now I'm like, all right, I have the results that I want, 50:21 whether it's success or fitness or anything like that. I'm like, okay, I have these results, so you tell me 50:27 that you, it has to be one or the other. Right? Because you can absolutely still reach that pinnacle 50:33 and still be knee deep in your own personal work. And I, I didn't know what that was possible. I thought it was like, okay, if you do all this 50:39 work, then you're fixed. Right? Or you, you build this empire of success and like you're fixed. 50:46 And it's just, it's a constant daily, you know, I, I heard something that I really like before. It's like, you know, success 50:52 or like living life, you want, it's, it's, it's, it's rent and that rent is due every day. 50:57 Like you have to always put forth that effort because the second that you stop, you know, 51:03 and again, I stopped for a long time. I stopped putting in that hard work for a long time. It, it just, it's like, it's cancerous. 51:10 - Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm hearing you say that 51:16 putting in putting in the work, being, being seen 51:22 for who you are with your mask off is substantially more valuable than wearing a mask 51:31 and continuing to pile more and more on - Yeah. Yeah. 1000%. And you know, I, I think it's so many of those, of that, of 51:40 that, so much of that sentiment is like, everybody knows that, you know, and I just, I can't reinforce just how important It's 51:47 to just be like, I know you've heard that before, but I'm really telling you, if you really go do that work, 51:53 you will uncover a part of yourself that is immensely strong and immensely capable. 52:01 And that is a steadfast type of confidence when you can look at yourself full blown in 52:07 the mirror and be like, damn, I gotta fix a couple things. And that's a long journey. That's a long journey. 52:13 I gotta, I gotta undertake, but I'm, I'm gonna do it. It just, I think that has a direct correlation to, 52:19 to the successes that you'll experience in your career, the successes that you'll experience in your personal relationships, in your finance, everything. 52:27 'cause again, I think the good news is that it's all linked together. When you start working hard and doing that work, I think internally 52:34 that translates directly into everything else. - I imagine you, after, 52:41 after working so hard, obviously getting the degrees and then doing the work on yourself also improved 52:47 who you were as a leader. So much so that you wrote a book. 52:52 Can you tell me more about your book? - Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So during that time, it was about a, a about a 53:01 three year period where I was just consuming as much content as possible. And it was starting out with books like, you know, 53:08 the 5:00 AM Club by Richard, by Richard Charma to Mindset by Carol Dweck, all the way to, you know, 53:16 healthy eating habits, right? So I consumed so much, I quantify this, like the original book was supposed 53:22 to be called 5,000 Hours in Five Minutes. 'cause I, the math, I was like, okay, so that's about 5,000 hours of like online content and books 53:30 and philosophy and all that stuff. And it was called Five Minute, 5,000 Hours In Five Minutes. 53:36 Because it was this concept of saying, here's a quote that I learned. And it could be from anybody again, Nelson Mandela to Gandhi 53:45 to Kobe Bryant, right? And it was, it was, here's a quote, A good thing 53:52 that you should do in life. Right? A good way to be. And the first part really was like, here's 53:57 how I absolutely was not living that. And then the second part of it is, here's how I remedied that. 54:02 And it wasn't like some highlight of like, oh, I'm so much better. It was to say, Hey look, I know, 54:07 I know I'm not the only person who thinks like this. I know that for sure. And again, working in marketing, knowing that we're the largest demographic of millennials right now, 54:15 guarantee there's people out there who are like, okay, I've reached a certain part of my life. Why do I think feel, or experience this? Right? 54:22 And again, giving people that permission has been so, I think rewarding. 54:27 And when I gave myself that permission, I started to see other people and I get text messages because I had a manuscript first 54:33 and I gave out this manuscript and I was like, Hey, I don't know if this is worth reading. I get text messages, people being like, dude, 54:38 I know exactly what that's like. I've never heard it articulated like that. And I think that again, people are looking for permission 54:45 to not just be authentic, but be like, it's okay man. It's okay. Like, because no one talks about 54:51 that once you're, once you get to college and once you kind of get your stuff together, you say you get married to all that. 54:56 No one talks about the timeframe from like mid 30, early 30 until you're like old. 55:01 Like no one talks about what happens during that time. And it's just as hard as being in college, which is just 55:08 as hard as being in high school, which is just as hard as being in middle school. 55:14 No one talks about it though. And I think that why it has resonated with so many people. 'cause they're like, dude, I totally know what that's like, 55:20 because we all kinda look at that at some point. Like, okay, well you're, you're married, you have kids, you have all these things, you're good. You really shouldn't have any more problems. Right? 55:27 And you're like, no, it's exactly like you have all the things you dealt with as a kid just now with significantly more responsibilities. Tips for Aspiring Leaders 55:33 - Exactly. Like, I still feel like a kid, I'm just bigger and have my own. 55:38 - Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so I think that, you know, the permission aspect is, 55:45 is is important to be like, again, it's okay to not fully be happy with yourself because, 55:51 and it's so trite to say like, be happy with a journey, but it, it really is like you put in that hard work, 55:57 you're proud of yourself. And that is something that I just, like, I could, I would take that any day over getting like a 56:03 $50,000 paycheck. And, and I have, I've gotten those where I'm like, oh man, like bank account goes and boom because fat check. 56:11 And it's like, Ooh, I nothing now, you know, just sit in a room by yourself. 56:17 Right? So I think that there's, there's, and, and I think that's why I have been 56:23 so inspired to kind of talk about that. You know, Jim Carrey talked about this at one point. He was like, I hope everybody gets a chance to really see 56:30 and experience all of their dreams because that way they can realize just how meaningless they are. 56:36 - I literally walked that interview. He is my favorite actor Yeah. And person because he is literally a good person 56:41 as well. Yeah. - Super mindful - With, with a great passion for life. And, - And that's right. 56:48 And it's no different than, than this message. I'm sure he said it like significantly better than me, but it's so truth. 56:53 And you, it doesn't have to be, I don't have to be a Hollywood alias actor to experience that. 56:58 Right. I think that people can feel that emptiness in, in, in whatever they're doing. 57:04 And again, just going back to success, I mean, man, that's such a broad term, right? 57:09 Success now today for me is like, man, I wake up, I'm proud of myself. I'm a good man, good husband, good father, good son. 57:19 And then like, the icing on the cake is like, all right, cool. We got some money. That's great. Right? And that's, and and, and I think the same thing. 57:26 It's, it's totally fine if, if what you wanna do is take over the world and become a millionaire and 57:31 billionaire and all that kind of stuff. But what I have found is when you now operate from a place 57:37 of authenticity where now even in some of the projects I do at work or if it's in consulting, I'm doing it 57:43 because I'm like, look, I'm gonna give you the very best of me and the very best of me should yield some decent results for you. 57:49 And now I'm driven from not just this, this passion, but I have like this, this infinite energy 57:54 because I'm giving of myself and the quality of work far exceeds their expectations. 57:59 'cause it's my own standard. It's saying like, if I had to do it right, and I'm gonna work bloody hard on this, 58:05 this is what it would look like. And I give it to people and they're like, dude, this is, this is crazy. This is way more than I expected. 58:11 And you know what's so interesting about that? People are like, here's some more money. That's exactly how it works. And now it's sustainable to the point where, you know, 58:19 today I still, I still do consulting and, you know, turn, I've turned clients away. Now I'm like, ah, I can't, I, I, I can't do it. 58:26 I have too many obligations. You know? And I think that that's, it's, it's a pathway to success 58:31 that I've never knew existed before. And I, I always tell that to people, 58:36 especially if they're starting their own business or, or even, or organizations where I'm working, where, 58:42 you know, they're, you know, nine figure organizations and you know, they're asking how would we, should we proceed to do this? 58:48 I was like, maybe what we should do is actually start working with some ethics first, because I can't give you really good business advice right 58:55 now because it won't land on you because of a, because of a B, because of c 59:01 because you're not, you're not operating from a place of really good values. Like you're chasing the money versus actually trying 59:07 to offer your consumers a really good experience. - That is a great - Takeaway. It's, it's, right. 59:12 - That is a great takeaway. So if you were a business owner or looking to be one, Gary says that you need 59:19 to start with integrity. It's a great place to start. 59:24 And, and, and in and, and knowing your values and ethics, I, I couldn't agree with you more. Would, would you write another book? 59:32 - Yeah, actually, I would really like to, to write one now. So I, I'd say the first one's kind of on self-development, 59:38 you know, and it's, you know, in, in short, it's really this kind of like summation of, again, the 5,000 hours and, you know, life useful lessons, kind of, you know, 59:46 you battling you, right? Like when you're really less yourself comes out, here's a couple nuggets that I have found 59:52 that helps me combat that, right? And this next one I think that, that I'm starting to, to, 59:57 to draft is really based on business principles. Like how do you navigate the corporate world? 1:00:02 So taking those things I learned as far as navigating and climbing ladder success, marrying that 1:00:08 with tangible ethical practices. Like, you know, actually having a, a perspective 1:00:14 of gratitude fostering and actually having a, a, a really disciplined schedule, right? 1:00:20 People are like, oh, I wanna have a good day. I hope I have a good day. And I was like, I think you can actually map that out. You can't account for everything, 1:00:26 but you can absolutely have the day you want if you plan for it, right? 1:00:31 And, and I hear this a lot too. People are like, oh, well, I don't have time to work out or I can't eat right? Because eating right's really expensive. 1:00:38 And it's like, those are all true. And I think that's like, what's sinister about the excuses 1:00:43 are actually true. You probably don't have time, and organic food is probably expensive as hell, 1:00:49 but it doesn't mean you shouldn't still attempt to to chase after it. Because I think when it's like, oh, you hit the wall, 1:00:56 this is hard, I'm gonna go the other way. It's like, no, no, you hit the wall. It's hard. Still move forward. And now I just think that, you know, 1:01:06 that's, that's the only way, at least for me. But, but I, but I like having it. I'm like, all right, I, I, it's not just saying like, oh, 1:01:12 I want, I want the hard way. It's like, no, I've seen what doing things the easy way does to you. 1:01:17 I'm never gonna go back there. So if this isn't the case, and people laugh at me all the time, like, 1:01:23 I get up at like three 30 in the morning, I do that every single day. I'm up at three o'clock in the morning, gratitude, 1:01:29 journaling, doing dishes around the house, like va like, like all that kind of stuff doesn't matter. 1:01:35 And then I start and, and then I start my day of of work, and I make sure that every single day, that there's always the time with the family. 1:01:42 And that takes discipline. Like, it, it's not just going to, you know, have it be laid on you. 1:01:47 Like, it's, it's extremely intentional. And I think that because of difficulties, people are like, 1:01:53 well, forget it anyway. It's, it's impossible. It's gonna be so challenging, so forget it, why should I? 1:01:58 And what I have found is when you put that framework together, you have now a sword, 1:02:06 and you have a shield, and you have a tool belt full of things to combat the very difficulties that you are trying to overcome. 1:02:13 - Excellent. The, the takeaway I'm hearing there is that living intentionally is important 1:02:21 and it's the way to success. Setting yourself up and not letting the day happen to you is important. 1:02:30 And I, and I'm very excited about this new book. I, I, I love the idea of it. And I think I've got a name 1:02:36 for you based off of this conversation. I think that you should name it Unmasked, and I won't even charge you a z. 1:02:45 Yeah, there we go. Oh my goodness. So before you go, I wanted to ask if you had any advice 1:02:53 that you would give your younger self, what would it be and what would you do differently in that way? 1:03:01 - I, if I had to go back to my younger self, I would give him permission. 1:03:08 I'd give him permission to, Hey, you don't have to always be so light. 1:03:14 It's, it's okay. You can be yourself. And again, it's just, it's so overly simplified when it sounds like I was like, 1:03:22 okay, I've heard that before. But no, like, I think the sentiment of being like, if you're really just going to put yourself out there and, Personal Reflections and Goals 1:03:29 and really just be who you are. Yeah. You might not be liked by everybody, but at the exclusion of everybody, you're gonna get a lot 1:03:37 of people who really like this version of you. They become ambassadors of yours. 1:03:43 And then if I had to Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think that if you had to, you know, if I had 1:03:51 to do it over again, you know, I don't, I don't think I would, I don't think I would because there, there's, I can't see any version 1:03:59 where I would be this version of me today if I didn't go through that. And I look at it like everybody that I wasn't 1:04:08 into, everybody that I had hurt, stepped on along the way, I'm gonna live the rest of my life in 1:04:14 service of never doing that again. Like that's, I'm not just gonna say it, it's some sort of penance, but it's like, no, I've been given opportunity 1:04:22 to still be here on this earth, so I'm gonna make sure I'm living the rest of that, my life that way. 1:04:28 'cause I think it's a driving force. I think if you go back and you were to redo it and say, here's the right path, 1:04:33 this version of you would never come. And I think that that's also something people are like, oh man, they're, they're, you know, 1:04:40 cursing their pa past and, you know, cursing the things that have happened to them. And I'm like, I know it's, and, and, and they're right. 1:04:46 Those are terrible things that have happened that they experienced or things they've done to other people. But the reality is, is like, yeah, 1:04:52 but look at you today that, that perspective is invaluable because of that. Right, right, 1:04:58 - Right. You know, this has been one of the most powerful conversations that I've had thus far. 1:05:05 I love how brave you are in talking about just your, your negatives and positives 1:05:12 and just being so transparent about it. I would like to propose to you another way 1:05:18 to look at the bridge incident before we jump into rapid questions. - Yeah. - You said that it, 1:05:26 that when you drove the car really fast, that and, and nothing happened. There were no cops. All the things 1:05:32 that should have been were not that you felt like the universe had rolled out the red carpet for you yet again, I would like to, to 1:05:41 to submit to you that, or maybe it was aware that you weren't done 1:05:48 and you had more to do, and then you found different things for yourself to be able 1:05:53 to make yourself better. And now you use those things, those tactics to help others. 1:06:00 And you've done that not only with your book, but with the people that you work with. Even people who were reading, reading the, the book 1:06:06 before it was printed, were thinking, oh my goodness, yes, this, this connects with me. This is how I feel. And I can promise you 1:06:13 that whoever's listening to this podcast is also gonna be very connected and, and, and powerfully moved. 1:06:19 So thank you so much for being so transparent with us in that regard. - Thanks for having me. - Of course, of course. 1:06:25 All right, so now I've got my favorite part of the podcast, which is the rapid fire 1:06:31 questions. All right, are you ready? - Yeah. - Okay, here we go. 1:06:37 Now, you've actually said this before, but this is Rapid fire, so you're gonna have to pick your favorite book that changed your life. 1:06:46 - Oh, mindset by Carol Dweck, - Early Bird or Night Owl. 1:06:52 - Oh, early bird for sure. - Right. 3:00 AM I remember. Yeah. Your Go-to productivity hack 1:07:03 - Spreadsheets. Use spreadsheets. Spreadsheets. I, I, I know it's rapid fire, but I have, I, 1:07:11 I learned this from Ed Millet, but he breaks down the day, three days into one day. 1:07:16 So instead of saying like, I went to work and that was one day, it's like my first day starts from 3 30, 3 o'clock in the morning till about seven 30. 1:07:24 And that's my time. That's where it's self-development. That's where it is. Gratitude, that's where it's time 1:07:30 for myself, fitness from seven 30 until five, it's work time. Nothing else matters. It's just work time during that time, 1:07:37 five 30 until nine. It's just family time. And when you start looking at it like that, you start realizing like you don't necessarily have 1:07:45 a little time like mad. Now you can maximize time because you figure for every one of those little boxes across every single day of the week, 1:07:52 you're talking about having, you know, dozens and dozens of time boxes that you can put stuff into, 1:07:57 and productivity wise, whether that's, you know, scheduling, having fun, going to the gym, having a nice dinner, 1:08:04 gonna sleep, like you, you, you have control and of all that. And you can get even more micro by doing 1:08:10 that on a hourly basis based off of the schedules, that time box. 1:08:16 And so spreadsheets, because spreadsheets help you do that. - Okay. I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna use that one. 1:08:22 I'll, I'll just send you a follow up on LinkedIn. I'm gonna have to jump on that. 1:08:27 So what was, what would be the best advice you've ever received? - I, I think one of the best pieces of advice I've received is if you're afraid 1:08:36 to do something, say yes, and then figure it out later. 1:08:42 - If you're afraid to do something, say yes and then figure it out later. - Yep. So just whether that's take the job, 1:08:49 whether it's take a risk, whatever it is, just do it and then you're gonna figure it out later. Because I think what happens then is there's no safety 1:08:56 net, there's no turning back. You haven't, you've, there's no lack, there's no longer multiple choices. 1:09:01 There's just, I've made this choice, and now you have to fall through with it. And I think that's the best way to do it. 1:09:10 - I could agree. I could agree. If you don't take risks, then you're not growing or changing. So I can agree. What is your Go-to karaoke song? Yeah, 1:09:21 - That's a good one. I, I like to think I'm probably good enough to like, 1:09:27 I don't know, like Sing Queen or something like that. But like, I, I think that, I think 1:09:32 that if I had a karaoke song, I'd probably be like rap. I'd probably like Snoop Dogg or something. Which - Snoop Dogg song, - Probably. 1:09:40 Probably Gin and Juice Classic. - It is, it is absolutely a classic. 1:09:46 And then lastly, your personal motto. - I would say Improve Lives 1:09:54 - And that you, sir, are definitely doing, thank you so, so much for joining us today for sharing your story. 1:10:03 It's truly been pivotal, just even for me. And I'm confident that that's going to be the same for the viewers. 1:10:10 Thank you for sharing your vulnerability and these incredible steps. And so before we go, the floor is yours. 1:10:16 I wanna make sure that if you have anything else you wanna say or get to our audience, feel free to say so. 1:10:22 - And yeah, I, I think we had talked quite a bit about it, but I, I really think the seeking comfort thing, don't do it. 1:10:28 Don't do it. And there's nothing wrong with being comfortable, but when you seek it, it just, it, it limits your options. Final Thoughts 1:10:34 And I think that it's okay to do the hard work and it's okay to be in kind of a not so great dark place 1:10:41 because just the same way that joy and happiness come as does the times where things are really sucky. 1:10:47 So, and I think people always try and avoid that, but I've, I have personally found a lot of utility 1:10:55 in not seeking the comfort. So that's my biggest advice. - That's so good. That's so good. 1:11:01 When people wanna follow you and learn more and continue to track your career 1:11:07 and hear more incredible advice, where would they find you? - I'm actually not on social, so I don't actually have like Instagram or, 1:11:14 or Meta, anything like that. I do have LinkedIn, but you know, my email, you know, and if anyone's out there, I don't know, 1:11:21 maybe a few people listen to this, maybe 2 million, I don't know. But my email is a good place to be reached at 1:11:27 Gary Guitar seven two at Gmail. And yeah, the books are also available too, 1:11:34 so I think it has more info in there too for, to get in touch with me. - Perfect. Thank you again for joining us 1:11:40 and telling us about your incredible journey. That brings us to the end of Degrees of Success. 1:11:45 Don't forget to like and subscribe. I am your host, Rita Richards, 1:11:51 and I am reminding you your next chapter just might be your best.