From Spy Missions to Podcasting

The Life of a Spy: An Introduction 0:00 when you get served a medium rare freshly slaughtered pork sandwich, you eat it. 0:06 Even though everything in you is like, I can't eat medium rare pork from a farm. I'm going to get sick. You absolutely eat that thing. 0:12 Really? Did you have to eat that? All the time. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I mean, it's routine in your combat settings that you have some kind of gastrointestinal distress, you know? 0:22 But in my job, if someone hands you a drink, the way I approach my job, you say yes. 0:28 So when a colonel reaches into his desk at Ramadan and is like, Pete, are we drinking whiskey today? Yes. 0:33 Yes, we are. And I look at my boss and I'm like, I'm teaching him. Like, this is how you allow them to be great. 0:40 And when they're great, they'll talk. 0:54 Hello and welcome to the Degrees of Success podcast. I'm your host, Freda Richards. And today we have an incredible guest, Pete Turner. 1:02 Pete was a spy for the US Army and now a podcast host with over 2000 episodes. 1:09 We're very excited to get to talk to him because of course, he's also a University Phoenix alum. 1:14 Help me welcome Pete Turner. You have an incredible military career. Your career overall is... 1:21 substantial from the military to while in the military getting your degree here at University of Phoenix, from University of Phoenix and going back to the military because 1:31 you love our country and want to serve again. Then you got into your podcast, you've had that for 11 years. 1:37 And then now you're moving into video production. I want to hear, and according to you, there's a whole production system in your backpack. 1:48 More about all of this, but let's start straight from The military, tell me, a thousand missions. 1:54 Counterintelligence, tell me more. Well, so my job, there's a lot of ways to do my job. 2:00 My job is very multifaceted. You can be a technician, you can be a defensive person, an offensive person, you can be strategic, you can be what they call, Stractical, you can be tactical. 2:09 And it just so happened that I'm a tactical person. I'm wearing combat boots today. You know, it's part of my thing, right? 2:15 So my job, the way it came down to me was I would have to go out off the camp and get to know people in town. 2:22 Because if you don't do that, someone has to do that, man. It's the bottom line, right? someone has to do that with the focus of, I'm going to gather information which can be processed into intelligence. 2:33 This is in Bosnia when I first did it. I was in Germany, right? And that was a stratical mission. So we would be ready to do tactical things in case here comes the Russians or whatever. 2:42 But uh we also did the strategic things like background investigations for clearances or assessment teams that would go and look at security of oh a building or of a unit and that 2:53 kind of thing. So it's a broad ranging job. where you can do a lot of things. And so I sort of just did the job, you know, early in the army. 3:01 And there's a lot of people, there's a lot of people approaching different jobs, different ways, with different levels of responsibility. 3:07 I'm just basically a kid in the army. And so I was just like the little brother for a while, even though I'm 25 years old, you know, and have a degree and all these other things. 3:16 So I didn't really have a home and I had to, had to sell a lot of it as self study. Like we think that there's like this spy school and there is, but. 3:23 you're learning the basics. You can go back and go to higher level schools, but that was never really my opportunity. 3:30 So yes, we deployed to Bosnia and my boss was great. Some bosses aren't. And so my boss was a monster though. 3:36 he would, and if he watches this, he'll know this is true. So I would tell people around me who knew me, who didn't know my boss or I, I would say, when you see him talking to me and it looks like he's being a jerk to me, that's just how 3:46 he talks. Let's not worry about that. And so, but here's the thing. He let me do the job. 3:52 He let me and my buddy Greg, we were partners. We were folksy people and folksy people do well in counterintelligence. 3:59 folksy? Folksy means I can go into town. I can go to Tempe and I can go sit in a bar and I can get to know somebody. 4:05 Okay. Because I let folks be folks. know, I'm folks, you're folks. You know, we've been talking and having a great time. 4:12 You know, that's what you do, right? And so look, there's some skill in that and some developed assets. 4:17 But if you can sit down in a church and just get to know people. you probably can get to know people. 4:24 You know? So that's the basics of what I- beneficial for the intelligence because you get to know people, you gather that intelligence and then take it back? 4:33 Or do you utilize those people and like, A bit of both. A little bit of both. 4:39 So I'm always, they call it spotting, assessing, recruiting. So I've got to go into town, I've got to meet people, make friends, and then see who maybe can introduce me to somebody and see who maybe will want to work with me, you know? Networking in Combat: Building Trust and Intelligence 4:50 And all of that is done in a combat setting. And so it's dangerous. And a lot of times it's not dangerous at all, but you don't know when danger is going to show up. 4:57 Right. And so there's a lot of exposure in this job, but it's very, very, very, very dangerous and it's constant effort. 5:04 So 16 hour days, 32 hour days, You know, yeah, that is that job because you can never do enough. 5:11 And if you miss the person who knew about the bomb that was going to come and blow up the camp, it's on me. 5:17 It's my job to find that person and I can't miss that person. And so if someone from the army and I'm working with, no matter how I was in the army, if they're like, hey, Pete, we're to go on a mission. 5:27 Yes. Yeah. It doesn't matter if I'm tired. Doesn't matter if I just got back from a mission. You just get back out and you go do it because I might meet that next person. 5:35 I haven't met enough people, I will never meet enough people to keep us safe. And it's a dangerous place. 5:41 And so you have to go out and you just kind of roll the dice and roll the dice, roll the dice. But my job is to roll the dice. 5:46 So you had the opportunity to essentially be a networker and use those connections to help bring intelligence back to ensure that everyone was safe. 5:57 Right. Yeah. That is a very scary job. It sounds fun, but at the same time, like the information that you're getting and ensuring that you're getting it back to them on time and to your point, wanting to make sure that 6:11 you didn't miss the person that knew the information to avoid everyone getting hurt. So when you get served a medium rare freshly slaughtered pork sandwich, you eat it. 6:22 Even though everything in you is like, I can't eat medium rare pork from a farm. I'm going to get sick. You absolutely eat that thing. 6:28 oh Really? Did you have to eat that? the time. my goodness. I mean, it's routine in your combat settings that you have some kind of gastrointestinal distress, you know? 6:38 But in my job, if someone hands you a drink, the way I approach my job, you say yes. 6:44 So when a colonel reaches into his desk at Ramadan and it's like, Pete, are we drinking whiskey today? Yes. 6:49 Yes, we are. And I look at my boss and I'm like, I'm teaching him, like, this is how you allow them to be great. 6:56 And when they're great, they'll talk. Right. And when they talk, we get to know each other. I imagine that's because they now know that you are open to their culture, their environment, and they're more likely to make you feel, you're making them feel more 7:11 welcomed and then making you feel welcomed as well. There's a lot, and you said culture, and when we say that word, it's so rich. 7:17 That word is like, it's gold. And so when we say culture, we have thoughts on what culture is. 7:23 You and I are from different cultures. Just because you live in a different state than I do, and all these other things, you approach the world differently than I do, because of whatever, right? 7:30 It's not my job to be comfortable in your world, but it is my job, and I call it uh miscomfort, right? 7:36 So it's comfortable where you're at. You know your world. So I know I can become comfortable in your world, but I don't know that comfort yet. 7:44 And so I learned how to do your world. Here's the other thing is don't fear culture. You use it to your advantage. 7:49 So if I can find your path to accomplish my mission, well then I'm not going to build a new path. 7:56 That's going to upset you. I don't want you to feel a discomfort. I want to be your agent. So I work not only to help communicate back to the Army, what they need, State Department, whoever's there, all the Americans, but I also work to communicate to you, the farmer, how 8:11 we work. And so you can understand. So like when we're acting crazy, when we're doing all these things, when we don't know what to do, I get them to trust me. 8:19 So I work on trust and culture to accomplish all these things because that allows me to come in and say, I don't know what it's like to work for University of Phoenix. 8:28 I don't know what it's like to live in the greater Phoenix area, uh but I do like, and then I'll say something that you will probably like. 8:36 And then we have a conversation and it grows from there. And so I will use culture to my advantage. I also won't fear. 8:42 doing this with you, whatever this motion is with your hand upset, you'll never do that. You'll upset everybody. 8:47 Like you don't eat food in Arabic countries with your left hand. 8:53 Unless you're good at culture. And then you say to them, you know, uh I'm from America, I eat left-handed. 9:00 And they're like, yeah, you're from California, we know you Pete, eat left-handed. You're like, you don't care? 9:06 Like Pete, you're not from here. And I'm like, yeah. And so they'll teach me, should I, tell me when I should, like, no, you be you. 9:14 And all of sudden folks become folks. Listen, if everyone had that mentality, we would be a much peaceful world. 9:23 To embrace another person's oh culture, um their way of living and just say, hey, I don't know. Cultural Sensitivity: Embracing Differences 9:31 me what I don't know. Know that I'm coming from a place of wanting to understand and be respectful. 9:38 If I'm eating with my left hand, that's just because that's what we do in America. Tell me, what do we do here? 9:44 I met a gentleman at the son's game. He was from Ethiopia. And he said, my son went to go shake his hand, but he had something in his right hand. 9:52 So he reached with his left and he said, no, never shake a man's hand with your left hand, it's disrespectful. 9:58 And my son being curious, he's very much like his mother, I was like, why? And so he said, well, um where I'm from, people use that hand to wipe themselves. 10:08 And it's a hand that you use to work with. You keep your right hand. clean. 10:14 Right. So that's the hand that you present to a man when you shake his hand. Right. And when I tell you that my son from that moment has been very serious about making sure that when he sheikhs hands, is with his right hand. 10:25 And though that's not necessarily our culture, but he appreciated what he said. He understood what he said. 10:31 I just I love that, that how open you are to it. not only are you open to it, but you're you're encouraging others to say, hey, I'm different than you. 10:41 Right. You're different than me. Yeah. but I respect you and I want to know all the things. 10:46 then from that, giving them that same respect, they didn't end up giving it to you. Like, hey, you're American, use your left hand. 10:52 We're not upset about Right. Yeah, we know you're right. And also, don't prejudge what they're at because we oftentimes we learn so much about the culture, we deny the culture to ourselves. 11:01 And so that's like that eating left hand to think, I know the answer to that question, but I also know if I give them a chance to be awesome and great and open and it works, that's 11:10 good for me. And if it doesn't, you just try something else. You try something else. You try. So I've smoothed out all the problems and I didn't show up this way, but I learned this. 11:17 How do you decipher the difference between here I need to reach in and let them know, okay, I'm not going give into the situation or I'd like to give you the opportunity to do 11:25 what you'd like to do? I would say the default is to just uh act as if you're doing a kind thing and that you're being open to things. 11:33 And then when there is a problem, you've already been kind, you've already acted in that way, you've already built trust that you can say, gosh, we've had some miscommunication. 11:40 And look, it's a problem, it can be scary and intense. All these things have happened. But if I start with, this is gonna be fine, we're just being folks, then we tend to get back to being folks. 11:51 Like, look, we're from different cultures. All right, so I'm taking too much. I don't wanna take too much. Here's a hundred bucks. 11:56 Bam. Let's make it good right now. Right. I can fix that. I got another one. 12:01 It's another level above that. Right. So because of the thousand missions, a lot of people do like a hundred or two hundred or whatever it is. 12:09 And nobody counts, but I just happen to know my number. uh You don't ever come back to the field. So you don't learn the field like I did. 12:15 So anybody who's been in the tactical field in my little avenue of greatness, I've done more than they have. 12:21 Right. So when you learn that, I realized that we've got these Iraqi sheikhs that are hyper important. 12:26 Maybe they're members of Congress. If a congressional member of Congress showed up to a camp, they're American. 12:33 We've been over backwards. We'd polish the garbage, I'm not lying. We'd polish the garbage cans. We would have everything. 12:38 We'd roll out that. We would not, we clearly would never search this person. Right. Well, I took that and I applied it to the Iraqis in this case, in this story. 12:47 And I would say, I'm gonna bring an Iraqi. VIP on this camp and we're going to act like he's a VIP and everybody's like, you are crazy. 12:54 And I'm like, no, I'm not. And here's why I'm doing it. here's, but it was designed, right? And so I would do a whole American side so they could all learn the lesson too. 13:02 I'm like, I'm going to let you have a chance to be great young Sergeant. And they're like, no, thanks. And I'm like, that's fine. I'm still going to fix this. 13:07 You're still going to do it. I just want to let you know that you had a chance. And so the next time I come with that chance, they're like, Hey, I want that chance. 13:12 Let me, let me run it up my side. I'm like, okay, cool. Right. So I'm always doing these things to amplify the thing that I'm doing. 13:19 So you bring that sheikh on. to the camp and you're like, hey, let's go to the chow hall. How they experience constant electricity. 13:25 They experience air conditioning. They experience ice cream, muffins. And I feed them. 13:31 And for the first time, they're like, you're feeding me. You didn't hire an outside. I'm bringing you to America. 13:37 Yeah. And their minds are blown. And because I'm smart, I've amplified this. And so I let the big boss know, hey, I'm going have a VIP come through. 13:46 Probably be in the chow hall around 3.30. All right. Sure enough, that guy, cause he knows, I built trust with him. 13:52 He comes through and he's like, Hey, Pete, who's this? this is Abu Goodguy. 13:58 And he's like, Oh, great, great to meet you. Great to meet you. By the way, on the Intel side, there's now a picture associated with that guy's face. 14:04 Usually it's a silhouette and we never get to meet these guys. They have such a good time. I have smashed so badly, like that barrier that was between us and them that they're like, I gotta meet, you gotta meet all these guys. Education and Growth: Pursuing a Degree 14:19 And there's nobody on the camp that is playing at that level. No, and you're breaking barriers. 14:25 My goodness. Okay, well now I know why you have a thousand missions because they were like, listen, we're not letting you go. 14:31 In the midst of doing that, you decide to get your degree at University of Phoenix, your master's degree. 14:36 Tell me more about why you decided, like how did you make the decision that University of Phoenix is where you want it to go and this particular degree? 14:43 Tell me I've had this degree for a long time. I graduated, I think it was in 98. Okay, so I'd come back from Bosnia and I just happened to uh work with a person I'd worked with before at my last unit. 14:55 And she's like, you need to come work at the source course. Now I was one of the only people in the army at that time in that area, it's very small window who had run a source. 15:03 What is the source course? The source course is like a, it's called the counterintelligence force protection source operation course. 15:09 Okay, right. So I'm meeting people and I'm saying, hey, work with us professionally to help us understand you guys better. 15:16 And this person would be a spy, right? I would convert them from, you know, Bob to Bob the Spy. 15:23 Okay. So I had done that and it just so happens that I ended up not through design, all through because I met a girl that we fell in love and we got married and she was in the army and 15:32 her job took me back to Fort Huachuca down south. my goodness. Yeah. That's what spy school is. 15:37 And so I end up there and they're like, what are you doing here? didn't even know you were coming. And I'm like, neither did I. 15:44 Yeah. Yeah, that's here. Yeah. That's where I was born. is it? Really? Yeah. Yeah. 15:49 So right where you were, where my daughter was born, uh I was there and they have a school for source learning sources and I had run sources. 15:56 And so was among the most qualified people in the army to do this job. No, look, there's people that have qualifications where they'd run sources, but in this new way, tactical, legal in this one little small little zone, even though I was low rank, 16:09 I was experienced. And so I worked that job. Well, I went from a combat job to 16:16 a desk job. And so I was talking with my wife at the time and I think I'm going to get a master's degree because someone, Wachuka is a very senior ranked place. 16:26 It's a place you go to and you retire quite often. And so one of the senior people there was like, Pete, you got a degree, right? 16:33 I'm like, why don't you get a master's degree? And I'm like, I always got time for that. Like, no, you got time here. You won't have time any other place. 16:39 I'm like, look, I don't have any rank. I can't afford that. And he's like, no, no, no. The army's got money for you. 16:45 And nobody uses it because we all have degrees and we all are already on our career. We don't need the degree anymore. 16:51 And so he's like, just put in a request and I guarantee you the commander is going to say yes, because he doesn't know what else to do except for say yes. 16:57 And so that was true. It was all true. And I'm like, all now I've got like, all I had to do is do all the work of like figuring out where to go, what to do, what to study, right? 17:05 And the commander was on board. He's like, yeah, of course, let's support whatever you want to do. Money that wasn't being used otherwise, by the way. 17:10 So it was just going to cycle back into the pile of money that was. So here it is. And so I went to the education center and I had never heard of University of Phoenix ever in my entire life. 17:21 I kind of talked to them and let them guide me. I'm like, I'm not really a numbers person. I'm more of like a, you and what they got to is this uh organizational management master's program and it's a master of arts. 17:31 And I'm like, I don't have to do that much math. That's great. I can write papers. That's great. And so, you know, it's 18 months journey. 17:38 And so I picked that because I wanted a master's to be competitive. And I thought this sounds like something that's not going to be too taxing. 17:44 Cause really for me and MBA probably wouldn't have been the answer. Maybe I would have got through it, but I just wanted to get it done, you And I started and it was incredible because what I learned, well, I don't know, project management, it was a 17:58 contract project manager who worked for the army. No way, so you're teacher. was an actual project manager. 18:04 Yeah. And so like the guy that ran the SWAT team for Tucson, he taught us one of my favorite instructors when he taught for University of Phoenix and he taught us stats. 18:12 And he's like, here's what we're gonna do. I'm a statistician. You need to know how to tell me what you need to know when I'm lying to you. 18:19 So we're not gonna learn formulas. We gotta excel. I'll show you how that works, you understand. But what I want you to understand is like the theory and the practice as opposed to the numbers. 18:27 So I didn't have to go. process and learned a bunch of formula. I didn't have to believe a little bit of it, but that wasn't his goal. 18:35 And I learned so much about stats. for a guy that's not a math guy, I have a really solid understanding of just from this one course because it got me passionate about it. 18:45 And I continue to learn about stats because we often in the military use stats for our advantage. And I'm like, that's not a good stat. Authenticity in Communication: Being Yourself 18:53 All the work isn't done. You've just done seven out of 10, so it must be true. And I'm like, that's that. How would you decipher, like how do you properly decipher a good stat? 19:02 Mostly I just disregard them. Because it's so rare that someone has done the right, like, let give you an example. 19:07 Okay, let's say that we're in Afghanistan and we're gonna run a survey, right? That's a statistical thing. 19:13 And I'm like, okay, great. So I look at the survey and three of the five answers are automatic yeses. 19:19 Like you wouldn't say no to it. And so I'm like, this is bad. And this is gonna generate stats. And so the source is wrong. 19:25 And so then I'll go, and then the person giving it isn't trying to give a survey. Sure, it's easy to ask a five, 19:31 But it matters, these things matter. So this person is going to go with somebody else's translator thing or go through a translator who's never seen this material and on the fly ask these five questions. 19:41 And you think you're gonna glean something positive from that. You're not. And that doesn't sound like spy stuff, but it a hundred percent is because the commander is gonna make decisions on these stats. 19:50 So there you go. There's Bentley teaching me something that I use in the field in a dangerous place. 19:55 And then the commander is like, hey, Pete knows what he's doing. Let me hear from Pete Moore, you know? Because if you're an intel guy and the commander doesn't know who you are, in Pete's world, you don't exist. 20:04 Okay. I need the commander to know who am. I need the enemy to know who I am. And I don't lie about any of it. 20:10 I'm like, yeah, you think I'm a spy? I am. And if I ask you a question you don't want to answer, don't answer it. I'm not here to harm anybody. 20:16 I'm just here to learn to talk to people. you would go and tell them that you were a... If they asked, I would offer it. 20:22 Let me tell you, so I learned this because when we deployed to Bosnia, they would say, you're part of the force protection crew. 20:28 I'm like, that doesn't mean anything to anybody. em How do I say that legitimately? I don't believe it. 20:35 Well, it's just say you're part of US forces security. again, that means nothing. 20:40 At all. At all. So I had to figure out what to do with it. And I'm like, I'm just going to tell them. I'm just going to tell them. 20:45 Yeah, I ask people questions and I tell the army what's going on. I communicate for you. Are you a spy? 20:51 Yes, yes I am. Yeah, I'm taking my, yeah. And if you don't want to tell me, don't tell me. 20:57 I'm never going to ask you a question that's going to harm you, at least not on purpose. And they're like, oh, a lot of times they don't believe you, but you can't tell me that. 21:04 And I'm like, okay, then I didn't, whatever. It doesn't matter. I can tell my friends at home, like I'm a spy and they'd be like, no, you're not. 21:11 So it doesn't matter. I just tell the truth. And here's the thing that I realized, this was later, but I had to be the same Pete wherever I went. 21:20 And the story about all of this realization is kind of kooky, but I'll condense it down. It's in Iraq, it's rainy and muddy outside, and this piece of rain drops and hits my arm. 21:28 And I got this flash of, it's almost like I took DMT or something. I knew something for a moment. 21:35 And I'm like, all these people out there that I'm interacting with, they can communicate and they need to know the same version of me. 21:42 And it has always been what I've done, but now I understood like really why. 21:47 And that day, I showed up at a sheikh's house and it was planned, you know, and so they had a chair for me. 21:53 And I told you, like, I don't sit down very good. My body hurts, right? So they had a chair for me. Like that chair is for you. 21:59 I didn't tell that. They told themselves that. I'm like, see, this is the thing. I have to be the same dude no matter what. 22:06 Even when I'm scared of it, I have to be honest about it because I'm building real trust and that trust I'm telling you over and over and over and over again, paid off. 22:14 Now, I'm not building it lightly. There's a system for it, but that understanding of how they perceive me, needing to be the same everywhere, and it unlocked so much stuff for me to be more real with these, I'm already a real guy, but they got to 22:29 believe it faster. So that information that you're saying is, obviously, I don't know how many of our listeners or viewers are gonna be in Bosnia or in Iraq to be able to utilize that. 22:40 But I think that what you're saying is impactful period moving in life because you being yourself in every room is enough. 22:49 And not only is it enough, but it's what's needed in the world to be able to communicate with people. 22:56 Show up as yourself every single time in every single room. I say this to my children and I've said it fairly recently. 23:02 said, if my old boss talks to my new boss, they know the same freedom. 23:08 Years have passed. It's the exact same person. And I'm proud of that. Now, obviously I've grown and I've learned, but am I bubbly or whatever? 23:19 All of those same personality traits. or similar. Am I always hungry to learn something new and excited to jump onto the next thing or have like, you know, a whole bunch of goals? Podcasting Journey: From Military to Media 23:27 uh So I love that you said that because I believe that in any career, you should show up as yourself and you sit at these tables and there may be other people that you admire, but 23:40 there's something about you that's going to bring something different to the table that's naturally innately in you. 23:46 And if you try to pretend to be Bob, if you try to pretend to be Sally, you'll be 23:51 putting a muffle on that light that is innately. There's a bit of a movement right now to, you know, I need to be more authentic or be authentic. 24:00 No, like just be you. And look, don't be a jerk, you know, sometimes be a jerk if you need to, but understand that they're being them and you're being you. 24:11 And if you just don't put a lot of stuff in between that, can't just be completely open and 100 % honest, but you can, you can try, you can try for it and just be yourself. 24:21 Yeah. If that self isn't good, well, then it's not me to figure out how to be a better Pete. Right. And sometimes this blows up in your face. 24:27 I mean, I've been kicked off of camp, so you're hearing all the good stuff. There's all kinds of, when you come, I'm bad news Turner a lot of times. 24:34 I'm like, Hey, that ain't working. And those people have a lot of rank and like, get that guy the hell out of theater. 24:40 And if you don't catch a break, you're going home. Right. So when I say all this stuff, there's a lot of risk, but the payoff is. 24:49 And so I almost got kicked out of theater one time because I made somebody upset. And my boss said, OK, I hear everything you're yelling at me, other boss. 24:58 But you point in Pete's email where he was wrong and I'll send him home. And that was it. 25:04 That was the end. The Colonel who says, he said some swear words and he walked away. 25:10 And so my boss took a chewing for me, had a big enough butt to take a chewing. But because I was me all the time. 25:16 It was all right. And then he tuned me up and said, listen, and he yelled at me like this. I have to yell at you right now. When you send an email, don't get me in trouble. 25:24 Don't write the words unlike Colonel so-and-so, which were the words that got me in trouble. Unlike Colonel Freda. 25:30 Like what? Well, that's too much. And then I disagreed with it. Right. So there are times when that authenticity costs you things. 25:37 Everybody wants to be a Maverick. The Mavericks get fired. Right. And so you have to be able to withstand that. 25:44 And if you're always a Maverick, sometimes you have to get along. Sometimes you just gotta like, hey, know what, different fight, different fight. 25:50 Let me go out and work. I'll continue to work until I have the trust where I can say, I think we should do this instead of that. 25:55 And by the way, it's not my job to tell people what to do. It's my job to tell them what I experienced. And when the command, I always had a rule, again, this came later, and the commander was like, Pete, what do you think we should do? 26:04 I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I don't tell you what to do. You're the boss. And he's like, no, but I'm the boss. I'm telling you to tell me what I should do. And I'm like, look, the staff will kill me. 26:12 If I circuit the entire unit and then I can't do that, that's not my job. 26:17 Cause the staff will kill you. They'll knife you in the back and you won't even know it. Quite literally kill you. Yeah, well, not literally, know, figuratively, quite figuratively kill you. 26:24 Right. And I've been killed a bunch of times, you know, where I didn't know how to manage the full organization, right? 26:30 And so I'll make that commander say for the third time, I will protect you from them. I understand what they will do. You should tell me what you think we should do. 26:36 And then I'll say, okay. And that's the only time I'll do it. I make them go through that process because If I don't have that top cover, I'm exposed. 26:44 Right. But you've moved on now to civilian life and being a podcast host. 26:52 Yeah. 2,000 episodes in. Now, clearly, I want to hear a lot about this. Slightly biased. 26:57 And I want to know how you got there and how even like with the 2,000 shows, how did it become something you were so passionate about, something you're so great at, and something 27:06 that you obviously continue to do so well? Sometimes I can't even believe it. When you said 2000, I wrote those words for you to say, and I'm like, no, no, it's a thousand Pete Like my brain diminishes it, right? 27:16 Like we often do with the things that we've done that are incredible. My show is incredible. It is ridiculous how successful it is. 27:22 Is it the biggest show in the world? No. Have you heard of it? Probably not. But when you look up on top of podcast mountain, up above the snow line, my show is up there. 27:31 I mean, I make revenue. I meet so many people. I've had world famous people on my show. It's ridiculous. 27:37 And it's all spy, it's all spy stuff. I just go out and one of the things people ask is, how do get these people on your show? 27:45 And I ask them, I just ask. And sometimes I got to be persistent sometimes, and so many times they've said, we're so glad somebody asked. 27:53 We've been thinking about getting into podcasts. You're the first person in the door. All right, world famous person. 27:58 I'll sit down with you, you know. If anyone wanted to follow you or find more, if they want to hear this incredible podcast, hear about number 2562 episode, where would they go find you? 28:11 Break it down show or just P.A. Turner. P.A. Turner is the easiest way and I'm glad to hear from you. know, like send me a note, send me. 28:17 It's not hard to find me. So just go out. I'm on X probably the most Facebook. But if you send me a message, chances are I'm just going to respond as soon as I check that platform. 28:29 It's been my pleasure. Honestly, I love it. This has been the best. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for giving me the wisdom and your kindness and just teaching me and being like that mirror for me saying, people in front of you are giving you these nuggets of 28:44 wisdom. They're telling you their stories. They're becoming your friends. And that is a huge blessing. So bringing that to the forefront, even just for me, I'm very grateful for. 28:52 know that our listeners and our viewers are grateful to hear your stories about you utilizing your networking. 28:58 and just being genuine. That's what stood out for me, being genuine. If you could say anything to our watchers or those who are listening, what would you say? 29:06 Find things that make you uncomfortable that interest you and stick it right there and see if you can't get comfortable with what that is, know, whether it is, whether it's worship, 29:15 music, writing, work. And if work isn't the thing, then make work just work and then turn it off the second you walk out. 29:23 If they don't pay you enough to care, I'm not saying don't do your job, then walk out the door and be like, well, that's my work, but this is my passion and this is what do. 29:31 And look, you don't get to make money paying, you know, doing your passion. That's not normal. You might have to work for 10 years, 15 years, 20. 29:37 You may never get there. But if you're passionate about it, that's the pursuit. That's the pursuit of happiness that we all get. 29:43 That's it. And that brings us to the end of this episode of the Degrees of Success podcast. 29:49 I'm your host, Freda Richards, reminding you that your next chapter just might be your best one yet. 29:55 See you soon.